Matthew O'Toole: My constituency colleague has robustly clarified her position. I do not think that I put words in her mouth. I think it was relatively clear because I took a note of what she said. We are —
Matthew O'Toole: I have been talking about civil law and the importance of civil law and criminal law, Mr Deputy Speaker. I have not been in any way uncivil, and I would not seek to be uncivil. There is lots of important stuff in the Bill, and I commend the Justice Minister for bringing — frankly, unlike other members of the Executive so far — a piece of significant legislation. However, we have a...
Matthew O'Toole: I am not a member of the Justice Committee, but I take an interest in these matters. There is lots of important stuff here, and we should all be able and willing to speak on legislation that is not in our Committee's purview. I have consistently said that I am disappointed by the rather scant volume of substantive legislation that has come before the Assembly since it returned and by the fact...
Matthew O'Toole: I will give way in a second. The Minister is seeking to correct me, of course. Since I have not seen the text of the amendments, I have no idea whether they are controversial, but I am going on what she has told me today. I am happy to give way.
Matthew O'Toole: I appreciate that useful clarification from the Justice Minister. We heard about measures around serious and organised crime, which is clearly not an insignificant matter. We also heard about measures to reform or change restorative justice. That can be a positive practice, but there has been controversy in Northern Ireland in the past around organisations that used restorative justice, so...
Matthew O'Toole: As I understand it, the Advocate General is the legal adviser to the UK Government rather than to the devolved Government. I believe that the current Advocate General is Lord Hermer, who is an adviser to the UK Government. International affairs are an excepted matter, but the Attorney General is legal adviser to the devolved Government, and policing and justice is devolved, so it would be...
Matthew O'Toole: Yes.
Matthew O'Toole: That is most helpful. I appreciate the Minister's clarifying that. It is certainly the case that we can challenge and ask those questions, and we will continue to do so. It will be helpful to understand the full background to that. I am sure that Committee members will investigate and interrogate that. It will also be helpful to understand whether the Attorney General for Northern Ireland's...
Matthew O'Toole: I appreciate that clarification from the Justice Minister. Again, I am sure that the Committee will find that useful in its deliberations and will seek to understand it on its own account. I point to an anomaly not for the sake of being facetious but because I think that it is worth reflecting on. Clearly, the Bill legislates on the civil legal aid system, but there is an anomaly in that...
Matthew O'Toole: I will give way in one second. It is all well and good talking about policy intent. We have largely debated nothing but policy intent since we returned here. It has been policy intent after policy intent. We have all tabled motions about our intent to do things, but this is law. It will have to be tested in court. We heard from Mr Justice Humphreys that the text of a piece of Justice...
Matthew O'Toole: The Minister makes some reasonable points, but the simple fact is this: the question of whether the Committee or every MLA did their job properly, given that the Bill, which is now an Act, passed by acclamation — there was not even a Division — only adds to the argument that we should do our job in this case even more assiduously and carefully and scrutinise the text of the amendments,...
Matthew O'Toole: I will give way in a second. There has to be some draft legislation. You have to see the text of an amendment or a clause. It would be difficult for a judge to surmise that a piece of policy intent was properly considered in relation to the Bill text until there is Bill text. I give way.
Matthew O'Toole: I appreciate the Member's giving way. I rise in a spirit of goodwill. The Member mentioned the policy intent of the Bill: the scope of the Bill includes — I am scanning over the other bits at the start that talk about fingerprints, DNA and live links — making "provision in connection with the administration of justice; and for connected purposes." The Bill is deliberately designed to have...
Matthew O'Toole: A number of gradually dilapidating buildings in the middle of Belfast have historic and significant economic impact. One of them is Crumlin Road courthouse. There is a particular issue in the Cathedral Quarter with Tribeca Belfast. Some of the Bill's provisions —
Matthew O'Toole: — would relate directly to that, but will the Minister work with his colleagues, particularly the Communities Minister, to see what can be done to tackle the scourge of dereliction, including that which is right in the heart of the city of Belfast?
Matthew O'Toole: I thank the Committee Chairperson for giving way. Does she agree that, contrary to the intervention from the Minister that we have just heard, the experience with the legislation and what subsequently happened in the court and, indeed, in another instance of which I have been made aware regarding the sexual offences Act prove that this Bill really needs to be scrutinised? There were clear...
Matthew O'Toole: Minister, the document is largely made up of principles, and there are lots of principles to commend. One thing that is not mentioned in the statement is the cross-border context. Hospitals such as the South West Acute Hospital are already in a real-life network, but they could be in a theoretical network that includes hospitals in Sligo, Leitrim and Cavan. There is already a cross-border...
Matthew O'Toole: Minister, do you welcome the direction of travel? As the Opposition, we have always been constructive, and my colleague said that this is the right direction to go in for the north-west in particular and for other regions. It is also true, however, as Deirdre Hargey said, that not every street in Belfast is paved with gold. Belfast will continue to be the economic driver of the entire region;...
Matthew O'Toole: Thank you very much, Mr Deputy Speaker. First, I thank those who spoke in the debate and those who have spoken on all the motions today. Two of our motions have passed thus far, albeit both were amended. We agreed with one of the amendments but were not so keen on the other one. I thank Members from all parties for the constructive way in which they approached the debate. We have said...
Matthew O'Toole: I will in one second. It places a specific burden on the Department of Finance, and I am glad that the Minister has come to the Chamber to engage on this. I am happy to give way.
