Sir Allan Smith: I am rather sorry this question has been brought before the House at this stage, because now we are compelled to apply our minds to the merits of the case, notwithstanding the fact that the Committee which has been sitting, and is now adjourned, has the duty to ascertain whether a remedy can be found. So far as we on the Committee are concerned, our function is taken from us by this House...
Sir Allan Smith: I mean the two main bodies on either side, the Federation of Employers and the Council of the Trade Union Congress. I was saying that if we are dealing with the question of industry carrying its own load, this is not only a suitable question, but an absolutely vital question, because, obviously, if each industry is going to carry its own load, it must contemplate the position of everyone...
Sir Allan Smith: To what other Amendments does the right hon. and learned Gentleman refer?
Sir Allan Smith: If that Amendment be pressed, can it be discussed with this one?
Sir Allan Smith: I do not wish to be misunderstood. Everyone admits the difficulty, and everyone equally admits the difficulty in providing a remedy.
Sir Allan Smith: I really must protest against the imputation that we have deliberately sheltered ourselves from responsibility by taking advantage of the circular which was issued. Nothing that I have said or published justifies that statement.
Sir Allan Smith: On a point of Order. May I say that the hon. Gentleman does not know what he is talking about?
Sir Allan Smith: May I again say that the hon. Member is misinformed?
Sir Allan Smith: What we have just heard convinces me of the absolute unwisdom of endeavouring to discuss realities in the atmosphere in which we are placed at the moment. [An HON. MEMBER: "We have got you on your feet—"] That may be so, and I hope before I sit down that a different atmosphere will prevail. I have been very much struck with the discussion which has taken place this afternoon and the...
Sir Allan Smith: I should like to ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he is aware of the agreement to which I have referred, and whether any trade union with which he is connected has ever been a party to that arrangement?
Sir Allan Smith: On a point of Order. I have already said, and I think that my right hon. Friend will not disagree with me, that a number of the trade unions told us that they had a disagreement with us because they had made up their minds, by a ballot of their members, that they were going to alter the present state of affairs.
Sir Allan Smith: I do not desire to interrupt at all, but I wish to inform the House that the extract the right hon. Gentleman has quoted is an extract from a document of a kind which has been recognised for years between the employers and the executives of the trade unions as being strictly private and confidential.
Sir Allan Smith: Conference notes which are taken at central conferences are, and have always been acknowledged as private and confidential by the members of that conference, for the obvious reason that if there is not to be sufficient freedom of speech at these conferences to enable the members to appreciate what is in each other's minds, then nine-tenths of the value of those conferences is gone. The...
Sir Allan Smith: Not only that, but the executive council refuses to allow members or district committees to see them. If the right hon. Gentleman is as fully advised as he professes to be as to what is going on, he would realise that there have been resolutions sent to executive authorities that it is essential these notes should be disclosed to enable the district committees and members of the unions to see...
Sir Allan Smith: I have not been guilty of any breach of confidence.
Sir Allan Smith: I very much regret that there has been such an irresponsible observation made on the attitude either of employers or of trade union leaders in connection with the discussion which has taken place on this subejct. I was very much concerned in this discussion. It is a very difficult point, and one of very real importance in connection with the whole structure of the Unemployment Insurance Act....
Sir Allan Smith: I was not addressing my criticism to the hon. Member. I suggest that we should realise that this point is one of extraordinary difficulty which cannot be settled off-hand, and will never be settled if there is any suggestion that either side is going to sit down to a discussion with no intention of settlement at all. The point that is raised is fundamental to the 1911 and 1920 Acts, and to...
Sir Allan Smith: Dealing first with the question of the Amendment, may I express the hope that, above all other things, it will not succeed. There seems to be in the handling of Labour matters, matters of employment and unemployment, a most extraordinary fascination for everyone who has no experience in dealing with these matters. That fascination seems to be strong amongst certain classes of the community,...
