Hon. Adam Butler: This exchange is typical of the lobbying that has taken place, is taking place and will continue to take place for some months.
Hon. Adam Butler: The hon. Gentleman knows perfectly well that I shall not do that. However, as I have already said, we shall not keep to the letter of the law which, if finally the Bill receives the Royal Assent, would require the scheme to be laid before the House within one month of vesting. We have agreed that a copy of the scheme will be put into the Library before vesting day, so the details will be...
Hon. Adam Butler: To become law, the Bill would have to gain Royal Assent before Parliament is prorogued. That does not of itself precipitate vesting day. The Secretary of State then has to make his scheme, and, as we have recognised, there are a number of points which must be considered further and finalised before a scheme can be made. The amendment removes a provision which would otherwise have made it...
Hon. Adam Butler: I beg to move, That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said amendment. Before I explain why the Government have had what might appear to be a change of heart, I wish to thank the right hon. Member for Llanelli (Mr. Davies) and other hon. Members for their kind remarks about me. The arrows were somewhat barbed by the time they reached me, but I appreciated the sentiments. The House...
Hon. Adam Butler: I beg to move, That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said amendment. Let me explain why the Government introduced the amendment in the Lords. The provision which the amendment removes was originally inserted in line with the convention that is nowadays generally practised. At that time it was supposed that Royal Assent would be obtained to allow vesting day on 1 October. That date...
Hon. Adam Butler: I beg to move, That this House doth disagree with the Lords in the said amendment. I make an important point at the start. The amendment deals with a very narrow point. Its essence was the subject of discussion in Committee, when a similar amendment was proposed by Labour Members. It was opposed by the Government and defeated in Committee. The Government remain opposed to the amendment, and...
Hon. Adam Butler: With respect, and subject to correction, Mr. Deputy Speaker, if the amendment were to be passed, it would require the scheme to be debated under the affirmative procedure. I do not believe that in that case Mr. Speaker or Mr. Deputy Speaker would have a say in the matter. We are not seeking to deny the House or the other place the opportunity for debates on the Bill. However, there have been...
Hon. Adam Butler: I shall willingly say something about that. I thought that the amendment was too narrow to allow me to comment on that subject, but, with your discretion, Mr. Deputy Speaker, I am happy to respond to the hon. Gentleman's question. I am not sure that I can add anything to what has already been said publicly, but in some ammunition and explosives factories the order book is weak. Unless it...
Hon. Adam Butler: You have been tolerant, Mr. Deputy Speaker, but this is a matter of great anxiety to hon. Members on both sides of the House and to some of those listening to our debate. It was helpful for me to be able to say what I did. I assure the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent, Central (Mr. Fisher) that redundancy terms will be identical for those made redundant before or after vesting day. I imagine...
Hon. Adam Butler: The right hon. Gentleman may be setting scares running through the work force. He said that it was being moved from one place to another, and that is not intended. However, he is right to say that the status of such people will change.
Hon. Adam Butler: My right hon. Friend last formally met the Northern Ireland Committee of the Irish Congress of Trade Unions in November 1983, when they discussed a wide range of economic matters.
Hon. Adam Butler: I do not think that it is the Northern Ireland Committee of the Irish Congress of Trade Unions to which the Government should put such measures. Whilst I acknowledge the considerable and worrying increase in unemployment in the Province in the last few years, we should take comfort from the fact that the last unemployment figures showed a reduction. Seasonally adjusted, they actually showed a...
Hon. Adam Butler: I suspect that the question has more relevance to a later question on the Order Paper. However, it is true that there is considerable concern, and indeed short-time working, in industries associated with the agriculture industry, because of the cutback in milk production. We are watching the situation very closely. I believe that there has been a degree of over-reaction. I hope that it will...
Hon. Adam Butler: Yes.
Hon. Adam Butler: Members of the committee will be meeting my right hon. Friend on Tuesday. I am sure that, if they so wish, they will raise the subject with him then. The Government have supported Harland and Wolff considerably over the years. We shall continue to do so, within proper limits. The problem is getting the orders.
Hon. Adam Butler: It is still too early to assess the effects of the introduction of the milk supplementary levy, but the indications are that the majority of dairy farmers are adjusting to the new situation. Milk production in the quarter. April-June 1984 is estimated to have been down on the equivalent period of 1983, but it is likely that many producers will have to make further adjustments to remain...
Hon. Adam Butler: I entirely refute the suggestion that Northern Ireland did not benefit from the 65,000 tonnes extra allocation. It definitely did. Regarding hardship, the hon. Gentleman will know that we have increased the proportion of farmers whom we hope to buy out, or the proportion of quota which we hope to buy out, under the outgoers scheme, which is giving special treatment to Northern Ireland yet again.
Hon. Adam Butler: I think that the right hon. Gentleman means that the moneys available under the increased limit would be taken up less quickly because of the greater availability of funds from the sale of Housing Executive houses.
Hon. Adam Butler: I beg to move, That the draft Financial Provisions (Northern Ireland) Order 1984, which was laid before this House on 29th June, be approved. The order is one of a series required at intervals of one or two years. The previous one was passed in 1983. It deals with a small number of financial matters, none of which involves the appropriation of cash for public services. I shall describe...
Hon. Adam Butler: How nice it is that one of our debates should be pervaded by so much sweetness and light, and how exceptional that I should spring to the defence of the hon. Member for Hammersmith (Mr. Soley). I did not object at all to his brevity. Far from being lackluster— as the right hon. Member for South Down (Mr. Powell) suggested—I thought that the hon. Gentleman's speech was one of his best...
