Hon. Adam Butler: Her Majesty's Government are cooperating as fully as practicable with the Australian Royal Commission. Twenty-five witnesses are being assisted to give evidence to the commission. They include high-ranking staff who were in responsible positions during the test programme, and the first to be called was Lord Penney. The Ministry of Defence has also made available a large number of trials and...
Hon. Adam Butler: No. On the contrary, we have gone out of our way to be helpful. We have released documents ahead of the 30-year rule; we have given members of the commission access to Aldermaston; and we have assisted them in looking at the material. But—and I hope the hon. Gentleman will agree with me—quite rightly we are witholding information which is still classified, and for good reason.
Hon. Adam Butler: The report will not be available until the autumn of 1986, due to its complexity. There would be no point in having the report if the findings were not made generally available.
Hon. Adam Butler: The feasibility study on the European figher aircraft is continuing and we expect to receive reports on the outcome of the industrial aspects of that study shortly. Discussions are also proceeding at Government level on a range of activities affecting the programme. Defence Ministers will meet in the spring to review the latest position.
Hon. Adam Butler: If we follow precedent in this matter, the work sharing will be according to the number of aircraft that the respective air forces need.
Hon. Adam Butler: I said in my main answer that the Defence Ministers intend to meet in the spring to review progress and that the results of the study will be available shortly. That being the case, I hope that we can make progress on this matter. On the other hand, anybody with experience of the project will know that difficulties have arisen in the past, that compromises have been necessary and that there...
Hon. Adam Butler: No, Sir. The work is being done around a weight of 9½ tonnes, with some opportunity to investigate a variant on that.
Hon. Adam Butler: The sales prospects for this aircraft within NATO and to third countries will be greater if it proceeds as a collaborative venture than if, for instance, we are forced back on to a unilateral solution.
Hon. Adam Butler: I shall certainly not answer the last part of that supplementary question directly because, first, it is our intention to try to make the project succeed, and, secondly, if we cannot go ahead with all the partners which are at present involved, it obviously makes sense to see whether it would be sensible to proceed with other partners. My judgment is that industry in Britain is much more...
Hon. Adam Butler: Within whatever elite the hon. Member wishes to call the vanguard of the proletariat—I suppose these days Arthur Scargill sees that as the National Union of Mineworkers — even within the various classes of working people or within what sociologists would call socio-economic groups, an elite has emerged — those who work in the mining industry. It causes resentment among other workers in...
Hon. Adam Butler: This is a most opportune time for the debate. I am well aware of the situation and have read the debates that have taken place over the past year or so, but the reason why I describe the debate as opportune is that the attention of all those who are interested in the subject, and possibly of those who may not have been well acquainted with it in the past, will be concentrated somewhat more in...
Hon. Adam Butler: I find it difficult to see how the hon. Gentleman's intervention relates to what I was saying.
Hon. Adam Butler: I hope that the hon. Gentleman will allow me to develop my argument, just as I allowed him to develop his. I shall some to the point raised by the hon. Member for Mossley Hill, which has been dealt with many times before, but it was not immediately relevant to the point that I was making. I was answering the assertion of the hon. Member for Stockton, North that we were, as it were, ignorant...
Hon. Adam Butler: The board will undoubtedly read this debate, and it will note the urgency that the House, like the Government, places on the need for early publication of its report. My Department has been told that the work is of such a nature—and this is a highly complex matter — as to take this length of time. No one would be gladder than I if it could report earlier. The Government were criticised...
Hon. Adam Butler: I do not believe that that charge can be made in this case. The hon. Members for Edinburgh, East (Mr. Strang) and for Liverpool, Mossley Hill (Mr. Alton) have studied this matter. The question I asked the hon. Member for Edinburgh, East involved how many people the hon. Gentleman thought were claiming that their present ill-health resulted from the tests. That information is not available to...
Hon. Adam Butler: I know that the hon. Gentleman has made a very considerable study of this problem. However, he has just referred to a very large number of service men who believe that their present illnesses are due to the tests. Can he put any figure on that?
Hon. Adam Butler: My right hon. Friend and I have received numerous representations from industrialists in support of the companies tendering for the new basic trainer aircraft including some reference to the wider aspects of re-establishing a civil light aircraft industry.
Hon. Adam Butler: I appreciate my hon. Friend taking this opportunity to press the case of one aircraft. Of course, what he mentioned is one of a wide range of considerations that we have to take into account.
Hon. Adam Butler: We shall take those facts fully into account. Perhaps I might say something about the light aircraft industry. We have short-listed two aeroplanes, which will be made by companies which are not manufacturing fixed-wing aircraft at the moment. That means that we are prepared to accept that possibility. However, there are many other considerations that will carry greater weight.
Hon. Adam Butler: There is no reason in theory why there should not be a package that involves the Hawk with another aeroplane.
