Hon. Adam Butler: This seems to be an obsession of the Labour party today.
Hon. Adam Butler: I do not believe that the term "cheated" is one that the company would use. It is not one that the hon. Gentleman should use. He asked whether the company considered the matter closed, and it has assured us to that effect.
Hon. Adam Butler: I made the categoric statement that the company has assured us that it considers the matter closed.
Hon. Adam Butler: I shall reflect only briefly on yesterday's debate before discussing my main theme. I was struck by the contrast between the two sides of the House — between the confidence and clarity on the Government side, and the confusion on the Opposition side. Most of the confusion came from the Opposition Front Bench, although one has some sympathy for the right hon. Member for Llanelli (Mr. Davies)...
Hon. Adam Butler: I am well aware of the interest that my hon. Friend takes in these matters, and he is well aware of what we have said about the targets for the numbers of frigates and destroyers. It was because of the escalation of the cost of frigates and destroyers that we had to see whether it was possibleÄ to produce a vessel with an adequate capability at a significantly lower cost. Much will depend on...
Hon. Adam Butler: That competition was carried out totally fairly, but in reviewing the circumstances of it we may well find that procedures will be improved in one or two respects. It is essential to ensure not only that even-handedness is done, but, as so often in such cases, that it is seen to be done.
Hon. Adam Butler: There are arguments for that, and I have raised the matter with individual industrialists. There are some obvious disadvantages, but also some advantages, and I gather that it is practised in some regards in America. We certainly need to consider it. My hon. Friend the Member for Aberdeen, South (Mr. Malone) raised the subject of the OPV 3 in yesterday's debate. When firms were invited to...
Hon. Adam Butler: I was concerned that my speech was getting too long, but I shall be coming to the proportion of our buy which is British. It is very high and I hope that it will remain so. With regard to land systems, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State referred yesterday to a saving of some £100 million from the competition for the MCV80. That is a healthy 12 per cent. or so, and in cash terms,...
Hon. Adam Butler: I cannot give that figure at the moment, but I hope that the hon. Gentleman will welcome a saving of some 20 per cent. as a considerable achievement, thus making resources available for other purposes. If the hon. Gentleman does not wish to do so now, he will have the opportunity to lavish praise on the procurement executive and Ministers at the MOD when he makes his own speech. The defence...
Hon. Adam Butler: The Government are always worried about the loss of highly qualified staff. The position of ARE, Portland has not been drawn to my attention before, but I know of one or two other areas where a potentially serious situation is developing. I assure my hon. Friend that I will examine the situation at Portland to see whether there is anything that we should or can do about it, and I am grateful...
Hon. Adam Butler: I am sorry that the hon. Gentleman will not have another opportunity to speak. What he said yesterday was interesting, but I hope that he will not continue to make a speech from a sedentary position.
Hon. Adam Butler: Nobody can claim that the nationalised shipbuilding industry has been competitive. It was heavily overmanned because it depended largely on a sole customer. Essential as competition is, it cannot by itself be a sufficient basis for achieving the better value for money that we are seeking. My second major theme is collaboration. I shall deal with the not entirely unfounded criticisms of the...
Hon. Adam Butler: I am sure that my hon. Friend, who must have discovered as much about the project as I have, will appreciate the progress that was made at Rome about the airframe and the engine. However, there is some way to go. If progress is not made, we must consider other alternatives. A third vital area gives us scope for improving value for money for the Ministry of Defence. I refer to defence sales,...
Hon. Adam Butler: I am aware that they are doing an excellent job. It is a multi-billion dollar project. I know that my hon. Friend the Member for Gillingham (Mr. Couchman) made his contribution during a recent visit to America. We must all pull together on that matter. Central to the Government's defence strategy and the debate is our policy of independent nuclear deterrence. I do not need to rehearse all of...
Hon. Adam Butler: I should be very happy to write to the hon. Gentleman about that. The present communication system used in Polaris will be used in Trident, but we are working on a new system—the extremely low frequency system —which is very much at the development stage. It is not designed specifically for use with the nuclear deterrent, but it will be applied to the submarines, for which it is most...
Hon. Adam Butler: My understanding is that the project is still very much at the research stage and that the first step will be a technology demonstrator programme. At this stage it is impossible to give the cost, and it is not our habit to give costs in regard to programmes of that sort. I think that it would be better if I did not give way any more, because if I were to do so I would unduly try the patience...
Hon. Adam Butler: The significant improvements in value for money which are resulting from our drive to extend competition in defence procurement have already been reported in this year's Statement on the Defence Estimates. Chapter 5 gives some notable examples, including the new Royal Air Force trainer, where the final price was as much as a third lower than the original estimate of what we might have had to...
Hon. Adam Butler: Of course, no targets are set, but if present trends continue I hope for a very good result. It is significant that during the last month for which I have complete figures more than two thirds of new contracts by value were brought about through competition or priced otherwise by reference to market forces.
Hon. Adam Butler: My right hon. Friend had discussions with trade union representatives at Rosyth and Devonport during visits this and last year. I met local representatives of industrial trade unions when I was in Rosyth on 17 April, and my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State for Defence Procurement and I plan to hold further separate discussions at Devonport and Rosyth shortly. Consultations by the...
Hon. Adam Butler: In answer to the hon. Gentleman's second point, that is not necessarily the case, although under the preferred solution the assets of the dockyard would remain in Government hands. However, it does not preclude the contractor company from having its own assets in addition. As to consultation, I assure the hon. Gentleman that I shall be in Rosyth in May, when I hope to meet representatives of...
