Mr William Taylor: Thank you, Mr. Deputy-Speaker, for what you have said, and I thank the hon. Member for his accommodation. I have taken advice about this. The plain fact is that I am reluctant to anticipate a reply which my right hon. Friend will be asked to give tomorrow. It is as simple as that. It is not a question of anticipation or the rule extending this far. The hon. Member for Loughborough compared...
Mr William Taylor: The hon. Member talked about a few pieces of metal being cut up. I have on two or three occasions, both while I was at the Ministry of Supply and in my present office, paid visits to Queen's Island to see how this aircraft was progressing. It is getting along well, but it is a very big aircraft. Quite new techniques are being introduced into it in design and in manufacture, and it is taking...
Mr William Taylor: Yes, when the day comes. The hon. Gentleman also talked of the items of equipment to be carried by the Belfast and the Lockheed C130. There is a large number of such items and I cannot describe them in detail at this stage, but the Belfast will enable us to move Bloodhound or Thunderbird Mark 11 by air. It will have a load capacity of 35 tons. The Lockheed C130, although an admirable...
Mr William Taylor: I was just about to say when we had that interruption that, as we all know, the hon. Gentleman the Member for Sunderland, North (Mr. Willey) has just come in from the night shift. He has not been here at all during these two debates which started at or just after 7 o'clock. In winding up the previous debate my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State for War asked the indulgence of the House...
Mr William Taylor: As I see it, the Amendments make one change of substance. As the Clause is at present worded, women under the age of 18 may enlist either for a term running from their eighteenth birthday or for a term of up to six years running from the date of attestation. Under the Amendment the engagement would always run from the date of attestation. In practice, this probably would not matter very much—
Mr William Taylor: That is so. But most are likely to come under these terms, anyway. If a girl has in mind a long-term career in the Women's Royal Air Force, it will be in her interest to enlist on an engagement which runs from her eighteenth birthday, since service under the age of 18 does not count for pension. The engagement running from the eighteenth birthday is a new concession for recruits under 18...
Mr William Taylor: I beg to move, in page 9, line 2, to leave out from "the" to the end of line 3 and insert "said section fifteen". This is a drafting Amendment. Section 15 is specifically referred to in line 38 on page 8 of the Bill. It is, therefore, necessary to insert the words "said section fifteen" in line 2, on page 9 and to leave out the words: section of this Act relating to persons therein referred...
Mr William Taylor: I assure the hon. and learned Member for Northampton (Mr. Paget) and his hon. Friend the Member for Loughborough (Mr. Cronin) that the Air Council is in no way less sympathetic towards the serving man who approaches the age of 55. As I shall show, the Air Council has power to extend the period of service in certain circumstances. First, I should like to explain the reasons which have...
Mr William Taylor: There is no arbitrary date. It is a question of the good judgment of the Air Council in this matter as to whether there is use for the man for an extended period, always assuming that the man wants to continue. It is a perfectly reasonable arrangement that after the statutory age, as it were, of 55, either side should be able to go on at three months' notice.
Mr William Taylor: The very expert exposition of the existing legislation given by the hon. Member for Dudley (Mr. Wigg) could, not be bettered by any Minister, I am grateful to, him for putting it better than I could put it. He asked about "the competent Air Force authority". That would be the Air Member of Council for Personnel. It would be at that level. On the question raised by the hon. Member for Ebbw...
Mr William Taylor: I have dealt with that point. When an application was received it would be dealt with in the organisation. Responsibility for the ultimate decision rests on the Air Member of Council for Personnel. The three months' notice under Clause 12 does not in fact create difficulty. Acceptance of the Amendment might not commit the Air Force to anything, indeed it would provide us with a power that we...
Mr William Taylor: The hon. and learned Member for Northampton (Mr. Paget) has put a plausible case, but I shall not fall for it. Service beyond the age of 55 must still continue to be regarded as a special case designed to fill particular vacancies which may exist at any particular time. I cannot move from that position. The Air Council must be given authority to use its own discretion in this matter, and,...
Mr William Taylor: I am very glad on this occasion to be able to accommodate the hon. Member for Loughborough (Mr. Cronin). The four-year proviso was put in in the interests of individual airmen, so that they should not be induced to extend their period of committed service at too early a stage. However, there will be a further rule that the period of additional service needed as a qualification in these cases...
Mr William Taylor: The remarks of the hon. Member for South Ayrshire (Mr. Emrys Hughes) merit a brief reply. The man who converts to a 22-year engagement when under the age of 21 will always have had less than four years' service. He is not the person at school; he is already in the Service. What he is seeking at this point is security. He wants to provide himself with a good career, with a pension at the end...
Mr William Taylor: As the Clause stands, a man continues to serve for an indefinite period. He can take his discharge at any time by giving three months' notice, and the Air Force can discharge him at any time with full terminal leave, and so on. The Amendment would provide for the continuance for a fixed period only, subject to the man's right to take his discharge on three months' notice—
Mr William Taylor: As I read it, the Amendment would provide for the continuance for a fixed period only, subject to the airman's right to have his discharge be- fore the end of the period, on giving three months' notice.
Mr William Taylor: I appreciate that, but I cannot see what advantage the Amendment confers either upon the man or the Service. If there were any merit in the Amendment which would do either of those things some reasonable purpose would be served in discussing details, but as the Amendment is drafted I cannot see that it benefits either the man or the Service.
Mr William Taylor: The hon. and learned Gentleman is a very persuasive advocate, hut, as in the case of his previous Amendment, I am not prepared to give way to his arguments.
Mr William Taylor: These Amendments are in effect drafting Amendments. The Clause is intended to clarify the position of the existing airmen, that is the airman already serving when the new Act comes into force. In general, it provides for the terms of service of existing airmen to remain unaffected, although there may be some changes in terminology. Subsection (2) ensures the repeal of Sections 4 to 8 of the...
Mr William Taylor: For reasons which are largely technical, as I have explained, we feel that the Committee should not accept the Amendment.
