Mr Raymond Gunter: I still have not moved any.
Mr Raymond Gunter: The hon. Gentleman would not vote for it in any case.
Mr Raymond Gunter: First, I thank the hon. Member for Yeovil (Mr. Peyton) for the tribute he paid—which I thought corrected the unfortunate phraseology of the hon. Member for Worcestershire, South (Sir G. Nabarro)—to the Chairman of the Gas Council and also to the civil servants at the Ministry of Power. It is easy to spit out the word "bureaucrats" and to talk about thousands of them. As the hon. Member...
Mr Raymond Gunter: That is a different matter. The tenor of the hon. Gentleman's remarks was that there was an urgency about the exercise. I therefore could not understand the hon. and gallant Member for South Fylde (Colonel Lancaster) suggesting that we should wait until the autumn comes and then make a decision on some aspects of the proposals. I am not suggesting that there is a difference of opinion between...
Mr Raymond Gunter: I take the point the hon. Gentleman is making, but I would be reluctant to believe that the oil companies of the world are at the mercy of anybody. I would rather say that at the state of play at the present time they can drive as hard a bargain as anybody else.
Mr Raymond Gunter: If the hon. Gentleman will wait a moment.
Mr Raymond Gunter: It is a great pity the hon. Gentleman is so rude. Had he let me finish the sentence I was going to sit down.
Mr Raymond Gunter: The hon. Gentleman did not know. He did not wait for me to finish. I do not understand him. I was prepared to give way. I knew we were in Committee. And when have I blamed my predecessors?
Mr Raymond Gunter: I have not spoken for very long, so how could I blame them all day? Negotiations have been going on, perhaps for too long, but they are continuing. The arguments are still raging and I can only say that I hope a satisfactory conclusion will be reached ere long. There are many opinions as to whether the figure of 2·87 pence was right or whether it was too high, but that was the agreement come...
Mr Raymond Gunter: Mr. Gunter rose—
Mr Raymond Gunter: It is not the Civil Service. That is just where the hon. Gentleman is wrong. I was referring not to the Civil Service but to "Gas Goes Natural", on page 15 of which the hon. Gentleman will find the figures I gave. Perhaps I may say a few words to the hon. Member for Finchley on one point which emerged in which I myself have always been interested: if at the end of 30 years, perchance, the...
Mr Raymond Gunter: The programme can always be checked year by year. There is the assessment every year, and of course gas is flowing into the grid and the marketing projections in the various areas of a country will be considered in relation to whether or not and how fast they are to be developed. That is the check about which I was thinking. I was asked by the hon. Member for Orpington (Mr. Lubbock) about...
Mr Raymond Gunter: I could not give it offhand, but I will certainly see that the hon. Member gets it. The gas paid for already, that is, from B.P., is on a three-year price of 5d. per therm for the first 100 m.c.f.d. At Hewett, Phillips have a half share on a 25-year contract at 2·87d. per therm and Arpet are likely to accept the same terms. The hon. Member for Yeovil—I am sorry that he is absent—raised...
Mr Raymond Gunter: I have not a quantitative figure in my hand, nor do I know the precise state of negotiations, but I will let the hon. Gentleman know.
Mr Raymond Gunter: I will not imitate the hon. Gentleman in rudeness. I did not sit down wearily. I had something in my eye, and that is why I wiped my eye. I do not know why the hon. Member is in this place: he would make a fortune at the Palladium, I am sure. I will now give the answer. I will be short and precise, and I have no intention of answering it again—
Mr Raymond Gunter: No, you are: that is the trouble.
Mr Raymond Gunter: No, I referred to the hon. Member for Worcestershire, South (Sir G. Nabarro) as arrogant. The import savings were expected to be £50 million—
Mr Raymond Gunter: For God's sake wait a minute. —£50 million in 1970, and will rise to £100 million in 1975 on the best assumptions. The precise figure depends on the assumptions made, but £100 million a year is a good guide in the period after the build-up. That is supplied by the Civil Service, and I am grateful for it.
Mr Raymond Gunter: I had never expected that we should be involved in a wide-ranging debate, on this Clause, about the salaries paid in nationalised industries and I do not propose to participate in one. We are all aware, of course, of the anomolies and the hon. Member for Worcestershire, South (Sir G. Nabarro) is quite right that there is some difficulty in recruiting what one might regard as the right men for...
Mr Raymond Gunter: I will certainly inform the House at the appropriate time what the pay will be, "but not tonight, Mary ".
