Mr Phillip Whitehead: I am glad that the members of the Select Committee, who were unanimous in their recommendations on this matter, are here to draw attention to what was said by the former Secretary of State, the right hon. and learned Member for Runcorn (Mr. Carlisle), in 1980. A Department circular on ordinary residence published then quoted that great legal authority Mr. Justice Karminski, who has now been...
Mr Phillip Whitehead: I cannot say that I have been greatly enlightened by that answer. It assumes an area of discretion for the institutions concerned which it seems that they will not have when the Bill is enacted. The Bill seeks to confer great powers upon the Secretary of State and the Department over an area of local government. I do not believe that there is the discretion to which the hon. Gentleman has...
Mr Phillip Whitehead: This is an issue to which we shall have to return. The dilemma in which many overseas students have found themselves over the past few months will be made worse by what they will read in the Official Report tomorrow morning. I hope that we can clear up the matter before the debate ends.
Mr Phillip Whitehead: I entirely agree. If we are to consider the impact of the Bill case by case, we shall have to examine the draft regulations as well as the Bill. The Bill is bringing the fee arrangements into line with the mandatory award arrangements, except that both sets of arrangements will be different. What will be the result of this enabling Bill? It is not possible now to have a satisfactory debate...
Mr Phillip Whitehead: Will the Secretary of State take the initiative and show some generosity? When he had that opportunity in the past he usually turned it down. If I were giving a teacher's progress report on the Secretary of State I think I would say that he has pretty much messed things up. In the words of the old report by the craft lecturer, "Give him the job and he will finish the tools." That has been...
Mr Phillip Whitehead: Why does the hon. Gentleman have such a curiously distant view of the electorate? What would he say to those of my constituents who find their jobs and livelihood in the railway workshops in Derby imperilled because orders from Malaysia have been cancelled to show that country's disapproval of the Government's full cost fees policy? Does he not see that many British people make both the moral...
Mr Phillip Whitehead: It has been cut in half.
Mr Phillip Whitehead: No.
Mr Phillip Whitehead: Those distortions are far worse and more sinister for home students than the alleged distortions of subsidy stated by the hon. Member for Gravesend (Mr. Brinton).
Mr Phillip Whitehead: The hon. Gentleman asks a rhetorical question. I can put him out of his agony now. If he reads the Official Report he will see that I accepted, given the situation in which the Government now find themselves and the comparative urgency following the Scarman judgment, that the Bill is necessary. But I would not, as the Irishman said when asked for directions, ever have got to this place in the...
Mr Phillip Whitehead: Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Mr Phillip Whitehead: By leave of the House, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I would point out to the hon. Member for Portsmouth, North (Mr. Griffiths) that nobody has said that it is not necessary to have a Bill—the criticisms are about this Bill. The criticisms have been fairly and forcefully expressed from the Opposition Benches, and to a degree that I hope will persuade the Secretary of State and the Minister that in...
Mr Phillip Whitehead: That thinking would commend itself to the Tory party. I do not believe that that is a sound educational principle and I am sure that it would not be supported outside. We are told that people in Ealing and elsewhere are standing around talking of nothing else but the dreadful discrimination they may suffer if we do something for overseas students. The hon. Member for Ealing, North should be...
Mr Phillip Whitehead: I will not pursue that too far. If the constituents of the hon. Member for Ealing, North complain to him that there are not enough discretionary awards and that discretionary awards might go, as a result of the Lords ruling and if the Bill were other than it is, to overseas students, he could say to them, "Hang on for a minute fellows — who got rid of discretionary awards? Why are there no...
Mr Phillip Whitehead: In that case the hon. Gentleman can help me further now. Will the draft regulations be placed before the Committee?
Mr Phillip Whitehead: The Opposition welcome the introduction of the new clause. We feel that it goes some way towards clearing up the real doubts expressed on both sides in Committee and by all parties there represented about the trading status of the museums. We accept that it is extremely important that the museums here designated should have the opportunity to commercialise some of their activities in a proper...
Mr Phillip Whitehead: With the leave of the House, I wish to press the Minister on a further point. We are anxious that the profits earned by the trading companies shall be allowed to accrue to the benefit of the museums as a whole. The Minister has confirmed that. Can he also confirm that any sums earned will be without prejudice to the amounts voted out of public funds in ensuing years?
Mr Phillip Whitehead: I beg to move amendment No. 1, in page 2, line 8, at end insert— '(e) satisfy the national interest in the Victoria and Albert Museum's activities and in its provincial responsibilities'.
Mr Phillip Whitehead: I am grateful to you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, for your second thoughts in allowing this small but important amendment to be discussed on Report. I am also grateful to the Minister for circulating to me and to other members of the Committee the reply to the remaining outstanding recommendations of the Rayner report on the two national museums. We received it just before the Easter recess. I should...
Mr Phillip Whitehead: Now that the Minister has given those assurances, which I welcome, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.