Mr Ivor Richard: Will the right hon. Gentleman take the opportunity to repudiate the squalid remarks made by his hon. Friend? If he does not, is it not time that he realised that a large part of this country, not necessarily confined to one particular view or one political party, was profoundly shocked at the recent disclosures of what British firms have been doing to their employees in Southern Africa? What...
Mr Ivor Richard: The right hon. Gentleman is evading my point. Specific allega- tions have been made publicly and these allegations should be investigated publicly. It should be done, if possible, by an inquiry through the machinery of this House. Why on earth do the Government not accept that position?
Mr Ivor Richard: Will the Foreign Secretary re-emphasise that the test of acceptability is for this House. It is for us and not Mr. Smith to be satisfied that the proposals are acceptable to the Rhodesians as a whole.
Mr Ivor Richard: The right hon. Gentleman is reading, with slight emendations, the speech made in another place by his noble Friend the Minister of State, who said that the Government hoped that the working party would report shortly. The Minister has said that he hopes it will report in the near future. That is a slight amendment from 21st December 1972. Will be tell us when he hopes, either shortly or in...
Mr Ivor Richard: I first join the Minister by saying that we on this side of the House—the few of us who are present—welcome very much the introduction of the Bill. With some qualifications we shall give it a speedy passage through the House. I think that in many ways the Bill marks a very substantial change in the position of overseas pensioners. I do not want to go into it in great detail. I merely say...
Mr Ivor Richard: I am obliged to the hon. and gallant Gentleman for raising the matter. His experience in that part of the world is far greater than mine. I had that matter in mind when I read the debates, but I am sure that the hon. and gallant Gentleman will not ignore what was said by Lord Shackleton and Lord Trevelyan. The hon. and gallant Gentleman was concerned on the ground, but the views of Lord...
Mr Ivor Richard: My hon. Friend has given one answer, but there are two others. First, many of the people concerned retired long before the mutiny, so in any event it is impossible to make them responsible, even collectively and vicariously, for what took place at the time it occurred. Secondly, a large number of the people with whom we are concerned were hundreds of miles from Aden at the time of the mutiny,...
Mr Ivor Richard: My noble Friend must speak for himself, but I think the answer is that he was not prepared to jeopardise the gain that he was making for civilian pensioners by raising the whole question of the military personnel. My noble Friend is a politician, as we all are, and there are times when one has to accept 50 per cent. rather than 75 per cent. of one's goal. I hope that the Government will...
Mr Ivor Richard: With the leave of the House, I should like to make a few comments on the debate. I am bound to say that we have had a singularly impressive debate. It is often the case when the House is two-thirds empty—and hon. Members with more experience than I will know better than I—that the quality of the debate is remarkable. We have had this evening an extraordinary debate. Of all the arguments...
Mr Ivor Richard: That means that those people who remained loyal will be entitled to the pension arrangements which are included in the amendment that was passed in another place. I fully understand the position of the hon. and gallant Member for Aberdeenshire, West. I read his book recently, and having done so it would be difficult for men not to apreciate the position in which he finds himself. His...
Mr Ivor Richard: The right hon. Gentleman knows that many British subjects, of Asian or United Kingdom origin, are in considerable difficulties as a result of their expulsion from Uganda. Is he able to say more about the way in which the compensation negotiations are going? Is he able to give some measure of hope to these people who have been expelled, through no fault of their own, and are in great financial...
Mr Ivor Richard: Can the Secretary of State say anything about the way in which the discussions over compensation in these negotiations are going? Have we had any reactions yet from the Ugandan Government? Secondly, is it Her Majesty's Government's view that Uganda should or should not be invited to the next Commonwealth Prime Ministers' Conference?
Mr Ivor Richard: Mr. Smith is reported as having said yesterday that he was not prepared to enter into fresh negotiations with the United Kingdom but was prepared to settle on the terms previously agreed but rejected by the Rhodesian people themselves. Can the right hon. Gentleman confirm that that is in fact the position, that Mr. Smith is not prepared to enter into fresh negotiations? Will he also confirm...
Mr Ivor Richard: As a Welshman sitting for a London seat, I have no interest in the proceedings of the Scottish Committee. But as one who sat through many hours under the chairmanship of the hon. Member for Glasgow, Shettleston (Sir M. Galpern) on the Sound Broadcasting Bill it seems to me, after examining Erskine May, that there may be doubt about whether the Leader of the House is entitled at this stage to...
Mr Ivor Richard: I am not questioning your ruling, Mr. Speaker, I am merely pointing out the effect of it. [Interruption.] On page 607 of Erskine May there is a very specific statement on disorder in Standing Committees, as my hon. Friend the Member for Shettleston will know. It is a paragraph of Erskine May that those of us who were on the Committee examining the Sound Broadcasting Bill had occasion to...
Mr Ivor Richard: Like the Germans have done.
Mr Ivor Richard: Before the hon. Gentleman turns from that part of his speech, may I ask him to clarify something? I am interested in his concept that we should not legitimise the regimes in Eastern Europe. Does he mean that we should withdraw recognition of them? Does he mean that we should impose some kind of sanctions against them, perhaps trade sanctions? Does he mean that we should move for their...
Mr Ivor Richard: And the Swiss.
Mr Ivor Richard: The point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Salford, East (Mr. Frank Allaun) about the amount which could be saved on military spending is, if anything, understated, for two very good reasons. Neutrality is very expensive. It is not cheap. With respect, the argument about Sweden is a nonsense. But in the past 20 years we have consistently spent more on defence than any other Western...
Mr Ivor Richard: The right hon. and learned Gentleman is being something of a statistician this morning. I do not want to bandy figures with him, but those two by-election results could just as easily prove that the electorate do not like women. They could prove anything the right hon. and learned Gentleman wants to make them prove.
