Mr Fred Blackburn: At this late hour I shall not keep the House for more than a minute or two. As one who was actively concerned in all the debates in connection with this Bill in the past few years I would like to add a word of welcome to the minor amendments embodied in the Bill. Some years ago, unless there was a Prayer against a special procedure order from which there was no petition there was no...
Mr Fred Blackburn: It should be made clear at the outset that the Bill is exactly the same as the one which was discussed on Report. If the hon. Member for Weston-super-Mare (Mr. Webster) did not notice at that time what was in the Bill that is his fault and not the fault of the Bill. It appears to me that it is carrying enthusiasm to excess to bring the Bill again before the House, because on two previous...
Mr Fred Blackburn: It ought to go on the record that I, as Chairman, think that the Bill is correct in that matter.
Mr Fred Blackburn: I think that the hon. Gentleman is merely quoting from the original petitions submitted by the Newport Docks and Newport County. Has he in front of him a copy of the suggested Amendments which were submitted to us by Weston-super-Mare, North Somerset and Newport?
Mr Fred Blackburn: It is not very edifying for members of the Select Committee to argue on the Floor of the House about what exactly took place upstairs. But surely the hon. and gallant Gentleman remembers that, when we discussed the question of iron ore being imported to the works, it was admitted that the works would require fuel and raw materials to deal with the ore when it was there. Consequently it would...
Mr Fred Blackburn: Has not the right hon. and learned Gentleman got his arithmetic wrong? To that salary one has to add the £1,250 of the Parliamentary salary. If one adds £1,250 to £3,750 one gets a salary of £5,000, which is more than half of what the Minister will get, which is £8,500 plus £1,250.
Mr Fred Blackburn: As I was Chairman of the Committee which considered this Bill, I do not think that I ought to say very much, but before the House comes to a decision there are one or two points which ought to be borne in mind. It is certainly not my intention to answer in detail the very long speech made by the hon. Member for Somerset, North (Mr. Dean), but the House should know that the Bill has been...
Mr Fred Blackburn: I suggest that the hon. Gentleman reads the examination of the witnesses at that time about the rig before he makes comments of that kind.
Mr Fred Blackburn: There is no connection between the size of the rig and the depth to which the pillars for the jetty would be sunk. Therefore, that is not a good example of what might happen.
Mr Fred Blackburn: Does Clause 1 extend to shops with living accommodation?
Mr Fred Blackburn: The same speeches, not the same Clauses.
Mr Fred Blackburn: It is a strange anomaly for the Secretary of State for Scotland to come into the Bill, since the Bill does not apply to Scotland. But I am worried about the nature of these Amendments, which simply refer to the "Secretary of State". We have many Secretaries of State, but there is nothing to indicate that it means the Secretary of State for Education and Science. The Bill as it stands,...
Mr Fred Blackburn: My hon. Friend is assuming that "Secretary of State" means Secretary of State for Education and Science.
Mr Fred Blackburn: All I said was that it would be an anomaly if "Secretary of State" meant the Secretary of State for Scotland, since Clause 23 provides that the Act shall not extend to Scotland.
Mr Fred Blackburn: I shall not detain the House for more than a minute or two, but I have some difficulty in understanding the objection which the hon. Member for Basingstoke (Mr. Denzil Freeth) has to this Amendment. If we were placing a statutory obligation on every local authority that it should provide facilities for the assistance of students I could understand his objection, but this Amendment does not do...
Mr Fred Blackburn: I hope that my hon. Friend is not including me amongst those he says are expressing sympathy. I was expressing surprise.
Mr Fred Blackburn: The Minister of State has said that the words of the Amendment are very clear and easy to understand. They may be crystal clear to the right hon. Gentleman, but many people will think that they are imprecise. The provision after taking account of any likely changes in the area and population of the borough or urban district seems to me to have to cover two things: first, the local government...
Mr Fred Blackburn: The right hon. Gentleman is clear about what the Amendment means. I hope that those who have not heard his explanation will be equally clear. The third factor is the alternative service which the county council could offer. In Standing Committee, the Joint Under-Secretary said: … my right hon. Friend has appreciated the force of the arguments which have been deployed. We shall, therefore,...
Mr Fred Blackburn: Would the hon. Member be prepared to say what he understands to be the meaning of "relevant matters"?
Mr Fred Blackburn: Really.