Lieut-Colonel Walter Guinness: No, I do not think it is a matter of opinion. It is a matter of fact; it is a matter of record; it is a matter of the previous history of those who are working with the orderly Governments of Russia. It is not a matter of opinion, it is not a matter of sentiment.
Lieut-Colonel Walter Guinness: Well, perhaps as the hon. and gallant Member admits that it is not a matter of opinion, he would like to hear the facts. I was not going to weary the House with this, but he might perhaps like to know who is supporting this Government of Admiral Koltchak. I have had sent to me during the Debate this evening by a Russian in London the names of the delegates in Paris.
Lieut-Colonel Walter Guinness: Will you give us the names?
Lieut-Colonel Walter Guinness: Tchernoff is one. That is a very valuable statement, because I dare say the hon. and gallant Member did not see in the Press the other day that M. Tchernoff, one of the leaders of the Social Revolutionaries, has now been admitted as an equal by the Bolsheviks.
Lieut-Colonel Walter Guinness: Well, as he is considered a fit and proper associate by the Bolsheviks, I do not blame Admiral Koltchack for imprisoning him. After all, Admiral Koltchak has got to secure the foundations of his government, and if M. Tchernoff shares the views of the Bolsheviks, and if the Bolsheviks are using all these outrageous methods of tyranny, and murder and cruelty to secure their position, surely it...
Lieut-Colonel Walter Guinness: I am glad to hear from that interruption that they are apparently repudiated.
Lieut-Colonel Walter Guinness: I only said—
Lieut-Colonel Walter Guinness: I am not accusing anyone here.
Lieut-Colonel Walter Guinness: I regret that I was tempted to deal with the interruption. I do not want to accuse hon. Members.
Lieut-Colonel Walter Guinness: I would be the last to suggest that the hon. Member for Silvertown had any sympathy with the Bolsheviks.
Lieut-Colonel Walter Guinness: I am sufficiently acquainted with the hon. Member's record to know that that is the last accusation which anyone could make against him. Further, I welcome the repudiation of other hon. Members on those benches of any kind of support for the Bolshevik Government.
Lieut-Colonel Walter Guinness: I believe the Government would be most ill advised to have any kind of communications with the Bolsheviks. The country would be behind them in refusing any measures of the kind. We have to remember that our Russian Allies are living in an absolute inferno, an inferno of slavery, torment, and starvation. It is for us to knock down the gates. It is certainly not for us to succour or to feed or...
Lieut-Colonel Walter Guinness: I think the hon. and gallant Member is misrepresenting the matter. That may be what is said in the White Paper, but that was not my source of information. I had been told it by a Russian who has escaped from Russia and who had either seen or spoken to people who had witnesed these things.
Lieut-Colonel Walter Guinness: The House will, I think, have listened with interest to the maiden speech of the hon. and gallant Member for Central Hull (Lieutenant-Commander Kenworthy) if only for the reason that he is the first speaker in this House who has, I think, declared himself against the Government of the ballot box and in favour of the Government of the Soviet. I think the objection of constitutionalists in this...
Lieut-Colonel Walter Guinness: Yes; but the Trade Union Congress does not govern us on any but industrial questions.
Lieut-Colonel Walter Guinness: It is an entirely new departure—
Lieut-Colonel Walter Guinness: The hon. and gallant Member suggests putting aside the ballot-box and putting the country under the control of a purely class organisation, such as the Soviet of Russia or the Trade Union Congress here, and perhaps soldiers' and sailors' representatives allied with them. I do not wish to follow the hon. and gallant Member any further in this argument, but would like to come back to two...
Lieut-Colonel Walter Guinness: Who is allowed to present military medals; and will the right hon. Gentleman consider the advisability of limiting such lists to suitable persons?
Lieut-Colonel Walter Guinness: I do not quite agree with the hon. Member that we must not look this gift horse in the mouth. I am not at all certain that we shall not find that it will be a very costly gift horse. I have listened to the whole of the Debate and I am in a complete fog as to the financial conditions. The Chief Secretary told us definitely that no loss will be thrown on the rates.
Lieut-Colonel Walter Guinness: I am not certain, however much care is taken, that it will be possible to prevent a considerable charge being thrown upon the rates unless rents are raised to a point far higher than any present charge under the Labourers Acts in Ireland. If the rents do not produce at least half the loan charges, a loss will be thrown on the rates. The last return, which was issued in 1915, under the...