Mr Thomas Steele: In all my arguments I have always indicated that we ought not to have any separation of the economic development of Scotland and England, and that applies in the sphere of trade unions as much as anywhere else. I am the official candidate of a trade union which would never agree to separate negotiations for Scotland and England. We used to have separate negotiations for the miners. The...
Mr Thomas Steele: I am sorry if I have misled the House. I was not dealing with the situation of N.A.L.G.O. wanting to have negotiations with local authorities; I was dealing only with the Scottish probation officers. They had to be members of N.A.L.G.O., and N.A.L.G.O. was not prepared to agree to allow the Scottish probation officers to have their agreements and conditions of pay negotiated by the national...
Mr Thomas Steele: Further to that point of order. Is it not the case that the Opposition have a number of days on which they decide what should be discussed? If they are so anxious about this, why do they not use some of their time?
Mr Thomas Steele: The subject of the Motion is not a new one. The earnings rule for retired pensioners has been with us for some time. I clearly remember the early debates on this subject. One of the great opponents of any abolition of the earnings rule was the trade union movement, which was very conscious that the retired pensioner might be used as cheap labour. Circumstances have changed remarkably. The...
Mr Thomas Steele: I was coming to the subject of poverty. I understand the hon. Gentleman's approach. He might think that mine is rather illogical, but the House has determined the line which he mentions, that under the new system—it was called National Assistance but now has some other name, although its basis is still the same—there is a line below which people will not fall. The unfortunate thing is...
Mr Thomas Steele: The criterion which the hon. Gentleman now mentions smells very like the means test to me. How can we make a decision? Either the man will get his retirement pension plus the wages he has earned, which I imagine would be well above the poverty line or, the hon. Member now says, the matter must be decided by some other criteria—and how can it be decided unless by a means test, which I should...
Mr Thomas Steele: I understand the hon. Member, and I hope to come to my own solution, but I feel that the first candidate for the £110 million ought not to be the man between 65 and 70 who is still working. There are other people who would be the first candidates. It seems to me that one problem which has arisen is that the amount paid to a man for delaying his retirement is not sufficient. We must give a...
Mr Thomas Steele: I am always hesitant to talk about spinsters. I remember very well the passage of the Act in 1946 when my right hon. Friend the present Minister of Transport was very active in the Committee. One day she argued about equality for women in respect of contributions, benefits and so on, and the next week she argued for special consideration for spinsters. The trouble about women is that they...
Mr Thomas Steele: Would my right hon. Friend agree to consult his right hon. Friend the Minister of Transport about a discussion of the Government's White Paper on transport? Is he aware that we have had this Paper for some time and we have been promised legislation? I think that the House would want to discuss the implications of the White Paper before we were presented with a Bill.
Mr Thomas Steele: Would my hon. Friend forgive me? As a Scotsman, I read this article and, in fact, people were being advised to put money into the building industry in Scotland.
Mr Thomas Steele: In view of the previous supplementary question, does not my hon. Friend think that it may be a good idea to abolish C-licences altogether?
Mr Thomas Steele: I am not sure whether or not the hon. Member for South Angus (Mr. Bruce-Gardyne) was educated in Scotland—
Mr Thomas Steele: Those of us who were educated in Scotland are not concerned whether it is the Minister of Labour or the Secretary of State who gives us the money, so long as we get the money.
Mr Thomas Steele: Like some of his hon. Friends, the hon. Gentleman is not dealing with the Amendment at all. He is dealing with the Bill.
Mr Thomas Steele: I apologise to the Chair. I am the last person in the world to criticise the Chair. When I was in the Chair this morning upstairs, I had to draw the attention of the hon. Member for South Angus to a similar point. May I pay tribute to hon. Members for being on the fringe?
Mr Thomas Steele: Is it in order for the hon. Lady to read a Central Office brief?
Mr Thomas Steele: The hon. Lady is arguing that we do not have enough time to consider these things. We have been considering them in the House for the last six weeks.
Mr Thomas Steele: The hon. Gentleman has been in the Chair, trying to keep other hon. Members in order.
Mr Thomas Steele: Order. I hope that the hon. Gentleman will now relate his remarks to one of the Amendments.
Mr Thomas Steele: But being in order is. I hope that the hon. Gentleman will now put himself in order.
