Mr Julius Silverman: I follow the hon. Member for Scarborough (Sir M. Shaw) in agreeing that a long-term solution to the budgetry problem will not be found quickly. I wonder whether it will be found at all. It is now about 18 months since the Commission failed to fulfil its promise to bring proposals before the Community and the Council on structural changes in the finance of the Community. Eighteen months later...
Mr Julius Silverman: When the May agreement was brought before the House, did not the Government make a strong point that there were two elements in it—the financial mechanism and the supplementary measures? At that time the Government attached great importance to the financial mechanism, even though we have not had a penny from it since.
Mr Julius Silverman: I had intended to speak in this debate as the Chairman of the European Legislation &c. Committee to which I shall come in due course. That is a theme not directly related to the major theme of the debate, but it is not irrelevant. Before dealing with that I want to say some things about the Luxembourg resolution. The White Paper of 1971, Cmnd. 4715, set out clearly the view of the Government...
Mr Julius Silverman: I am not suggesting that there is no merit in some of the items. Nor am I saying that the view that I have given is the Committee's unanimous view. However, some Committee members believe that much of the legislation that encumbers our statute book should be decided by national Governments. That is the point. Some of the measures are introduced in the interest of harmonising inter-Community...
Mr Julius Silverman: My hon. Friend is wrong. Sometimes the time given to debates in the House and the time at which they take place is criticised.
Mr Julius Silverman: I accept that. However, before a Minister goes to Brussels to vote, there should be a debate in the House so that he knows what to do.
Mr Julius Silverman: The House cannot amend. We can only instruct our Minister not to vote for or against a particular motion. The disappearance of the Luxembourg agreement will have this effect: both the Committee and the House will have lost their teeth. I welcome the intervention of my hon. Friend the Member for Newham, North-West (Mr, Lewis) so that I can make that point. The House still has that right today,...
Mr Julius Silverman: I shall not follow the hon. Member for Cheadle (Mr. Normanton) in discussing the merits or demerits of the European Parliament or European parliamentarians, nor their contribution to financial control. There is sufficient to discuss in the report. However, I am astonished to hear him say that the control of finance in the European Community is superior to that in this Parliament. Whatever the...
Mr Julius Silverman: I am sure that is correct. There has been an improvement in that respect. However, the procedure makes it more difficult to chase the money—the revenue and the expenditure. The procedure still exists and there are still criticisms of the EDF and allegations of general slip-shod accountancy. The Commission states that less than half of the proposals that it made in 1979 concerning the 1978...
Mr Julius Silverman: I agree with the hon. Gentleman about the importance of bringing the reports together. That is precisely what the Commission does not allow the Court of Auditors to do. It does not allow it access to the bank accounts, which it should have if it is to have effective and proper supervision of the Community's accounts. In that respect, I think that the hon. Gentleman is right. My Committee can...
Mr Julius Silverman: When the Parliament turns down the budget.
Mr Julius Silverman: I shall comment in due course on one or two aspects that have already been dealt with. Firstly, I would say that the West Midlands used to be one of the most prosperous areas in the country. For many years hon. Members on both sides of the House and their advisers have assumed that that would continue indefinitely. It used to be said that Birmingham was a resilient area and that with its...
Mr Julius Silverman: Mr. Julius Silverman (Birmingham, Erdington): I shall not follow the hon. Member for Reigate (Mr. Gardiner), if for one reason only, and that is that I speak as the Chairman of the Select Committee on European Legislation &c. For that reason I shall not refer to the merits of the motion, nor to those of the amendment.
Mr Julius Silverman: Mr. Silverman: The point is that we are not discussing those proposals. Our discussions are confined to the document that is before the House. That is the subject of our debate. If there are more precise proposals, clearly they should be brought before the House and discussed here. Not only should they be brought before the House, but, in accordance with the procedure of the House, in the...
Mr Julius Silverman: Mr. Julius Silverman (Birmingham, Erdington): As many of the proposals are not comprehensible and none is specific, how can the Council of Ministers on 26 November reach a definite conclusion on the document?
Mr Julius Silverman: Mr. Silverman: Does not the mandate specifically exclude basic reform of the common agricultural policy?
Mr Julius Silverman: I estimate that in the past two years the various industrial undertakings in my constituency have had about 11,000 redundancies, so I am tempted to deal with unemployment generally, about which I have spoken previously. However, I shall concentrate in the time at my disposal on a specific matter, which I and other Birmingham Members discussed yesterday with the Minister of State, Department...
Mr Julius Silverman: It is, but I am not dealing with that aspect at the moment. Both companies assured us that the decision was irrevocable. They said the same in letters to the Department of Employment. That was made quite clear. In view of he history of the case, one cannot help thinking that the decision to close the brewery had far more to do with the commercial interests of the company than it had to do...
Mr Julius Silverman: They account in value for 88 per cent. of the total.
Mr Julius Silverman: I intend to confine my remarks almost entirely to documents 11203/79 and 5861/80, which relate to financial control in the Community, the report of the Court of Auditors for 1978 and the discharge in respect of the 1978 budget. When our Scrutiny Committee examined the report, we had the utmost concern at the disclosures made in it as to the methods of accountancy, as to the control which was...
