Mr Frank McManus: Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that paragraph 7 of the Sunningdale communiqué says that Following the appointment of a Northern Ireland Executive, the Irish Government and the Northern Ireland Executive would nominate their representatives to a Council of Ireland? Why have no nominations so far been made to that body, as stipulated?
Mr Frank McManus: Following on that reply, will the right hon. Gentleman indicate the number of people that he has seen about this matter and what relation that number bears to the number of people in Northern Ireland who actually have a vote?
Mr Frank McManus: asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will seek to repeal Section 6 of the Emergency Provisions (Northern Ireland) Act 1973 under which policemen may bring forward as evidence statements by an accused which were not made by an accused to a policeman in a police station or interrogation centre, and statements which are in fact distortions or representations of statements made...
Mr Frank McManus: Does the hon. Gentleman not accept that the things described in the Question are in fact happening every day, that they are well documented, that reports of them appear in newspapers every day of the week, that unsigned statements are being admitted as evidence, that verbal statements are daily being accepted as evidence, that, since an accused is not allowed to have with him his legal...
Mr Frank McManus: Does not the hon. Gentleman agree that he must be aware by now of the considerable displeasure in the student body generally in Northern Ireland with the levels of grants? Since this is one of the few non-political types of agitation going on in Northern Ireland at the moment, does he not agree that it should be encouraged, and that he should immediately take steps to increase the grants so...
Mr Frank McManus: I am sure that the House will be delighted to know from the hon. Member for Antrim, South (Mr. Molyneaux) that God is in his Heaven, that the Orange Order is not split and that things are all well. I was tickled by one of the hon. Gentleman's suggestions. He said, with some justification, that the administration should not be as big as it is but perhaps half the size. I am wondering where he...
Mr Frank McManus: My hon. Friend is a noted champion of democracy. Perhaps I may take him back to something in which he was involved recently, although I may be getting a little off the point. Recently my hon. Friend called for the removal of a judge, properly appointed, in this country. He did not say by what he would replace the judge. He said, "Get rid of the judge." I think that is fair reply to my hon....
Mr Frank McManus: I do not see how that follows at all. The hon. Gentleman was not following what I said. What I said was that this wall was placed there more for nuisance value than anything else. That is how it appears to me from talking to the people, and hearing their reported conversations with soldiers. It does not follow from that that I am in favour of anybody killing a soldier, be he from the hon....
Mr Frank McManus: I will respond to the hon. Gentleman with another question. He has just said very forcefully that he is against people who shoot and kill, no matter what the reason. As he wants people to stand up and be counted, will he stand now at the Dispatch Box and, for instance, condemn the paratroopers who shot 13 people dead in Derry? I throw that question back at the hon. Gentleman.
Mr Frank McManus: I take the position that I do not like killing at all. If I liked killing I would be in either the British Army or some other army. But I am an elected politician and I am attempting to do my job in the ever-diminishing confines of constitutional democracy.
Mr Frank McManus: The hon. Member need not have wasted his breath. I have every reason to remember all these events, because I lived through them. How could I forget them? The Romans came to this country to bring a little civilisation here, and what they did to the people after they arrived is a subject for interminable argument. I should like the Minister to answer at least one question. He is not in the...
Mr Frank McManus: What is a fact of life is that the people of the minority community by and large have realised that the Dublin Government care not for them or their problems or their future. The Loyalist community is learning to its cost that the British Government care not for it or its future. Out of this situation there emerges hope. Perhaps it will lead to some sort of real power sharing rather than the...
Mr Frank McManus: Mr. McManus rose—
Mr Frank McManus: Does the hon. Gentleman realise what he has said? In the midst of his marvellous outburst he said the most extraordinary thing. He said "I want to see the proposals". He now tells us, he and his hon. Friends having all day borne the brunt of the defence of the Bill, the Government never intervening, that he has not seen the package to which he has given carte blanche and unqualified support....
Mr Frank McManus: There is a feeling abroad among the general public that Secretaries of State. Front Benchers and leading back benchers are staid and sober statesmen who are not easily swayed by emotion. These people would have been surprised to witness the extent of the euphoria which has obtained here today and has been carefully orchestrated so far in the debate—perhaps deliberately so. It is,...
Mr Frank McManus: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for bringing that to my attention. I thought I said that the Ministry of Finance is the vital Ministry. It was part of the bargain that that would have to stay in Unionist hands—in other words, the system of appointing people still remains in the same hands. Therefore, the vicious circle of discrimination perpetuating itself cannot be broken for at least...
Mr Frank McManus: The defence of the SDLP by my hon. Friend the Member for Salford, West (Mr. Orme) is extremely touching, but it is not accurate. The SDLP forced out the sitting member on a technicality, alleging that he did not qualify for his seat. The chief electoral officer recommended that he be allowed to retain his seat, but the SDLP saw an opening whereby it could snaffle all the seats, and it forced...
Mr Frank McManus: Before the hon. Gentleman passes from that point, may I say that this House well knows that as a member of the Alliance Party he has all along been the principal supporter of the White Paper. For that reason I would ask him whether he thinks that his party has been very scantily rewarded for that loyal service, because his party is to be allocated the job of being in charge of legal reform....
Mr Frank McManus: The hon. Gentleman dos me an injustice, and the Secretary of State does me an even greater injustice by muttering "Complete rubbish". I do not believe that it is. I did not speak of the Minister of Finance. I said that in the Ministry of Finance a section has been established. Can the Minister confirm or deny that a section dealing with the management of personnel has been set up?
Mr Frank McManus: That is exactly what I said.
