Dr Dickson Mabon: I agree with the hon. Member for Bedford (Mr. Skeet) that if there is to be any disposition it should be gradual and handled with great caution and reason. The Scots would use the phrase "ca' canny" with regard to this, and it has been the essence of the argument in the other place and in Standing Committee for the disposition of the showrooms. I hope that the Secretary of State will think...
Dr Dickson Mabon: That is an important announcement. Does it mean that the Minister will not do anything about these matters until the Bill is on the statute book?
Dr Dickson Mabon: Will the Secretary of State read out the next sentence?
Dr Dickson Mabon: When the Minister replies, will he be kind enough to say what is implied by amendment 14(c)? When the transferor—I presume BGC—passes over the assets, whatever they may be, will the borrowing limit then go down because the transferee acquires it, not being another corporation?
Dr Dickson Mabon: On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I do not understand how it is possible to take the two groups separately. I understand that we may only speak once, unless we are given permission to speak a second time. It is difficult to debate this group with the subsequent group unless we all get permission to speak twice.
Dr Dickson Mabon: I find it astonishing that we should be spending less than two hours debating this group of amendments. There are at least two substantial intrinsic problems in the various groupings and a massive constitutional point in amendment No. 7, which was barely touched on in the other place. Lord Elwyn-Jones described it as dealing with the Bill in a lazy way. That has been the character of the Bill...
Dr Dickson Mabon: I know that. I used to pledge to the hon. Gentleman and to other hon. Members that each participation agreement—there must be 60 or more—would be placed in the Library not in absolute form but in a heads of agreement form. I do not object to that. But if it has been promised in another place that the document will be placed in the Library—I assume the Secretary of State will endorse...
Dr Dickson Mabon: I agree. May I say, as a fellow Scot, that in the ancient traditions of the Scottish Parliament we would not have allowed this type of amendment to stand, but in the English Parliament, whose rules and traditions we have inherited, omnicompetence is allowed. That being the case, the Secretary of State, in a slipshod way, is putting in a provision of a monstrous constitutional nature to set...
Dr Dickson Mabon: I am trying to follow the hon. Gentleman's argument. He has said that Britoil and BNOC should not adopt a licence-by-licence approach. What about the third parties? Will they be consulted?
Dr Dickson Mabon: To what extent is the Scottish Office involved in any overtures for negotiations with the Faroe Islands and the Republic of Ireland over the median line settlement for the allocation of oil development licences in those areas?
Dr Dickson Mabon: On the Secretary of State's quite cogent argument on the question of equity, what is singularly lacking to buttress it is the fact that there has been no request from local authorities generally, including his own, for this kind of mechanism to be introduced.
Dr Dickson Mabon: The speeches so far have been of high calibre. The hon. Member for Blackburn (Mr. Straw) asked some pertinent questions. The principal one that I should like answered tonight is that of waste. There may be a serious threat to existing fields, particularly earlier ones that might be reaching the end of their production profile. There will be a strong temptation, because of the financial...
Dr Dickson Mabon: I wish that I had been in a sufficiently strong position to be able to respond and decide. It would have been much better if I had been listened to. Unfortunately, I was not in that supreme position. Perhaps time has not passed me by and I might yet have that opportunity, in which case I shall read this speech with immense pleasure so that I can carry out what I am advocating. It is up to...
Dr Dickson Mabon: Is there any way in which a company that is going to close down, contrary to the national interest, can consult the Treasury? Is there any mechanism, apart from royalty oil, by which the Treasury might be able to persuade the company to continue in production, perhaps, by fiscal relief of some sort?
Dr Dickson Mabon: I am astonished at what has happened tonight. The hon. Member for Dunfermline (Mr. Douglas) argued the case ambitiously for more than can be achieved. The Secretary of State does not want this amendment or change. He wants to stick to what he has got so far. In retrospect, perhaps a year from now, the Tories will substantially regret what they have done or are going to do tonight. They are...
Dr Dickson Mabon: I should like to get one point clear when the Secretary of State replies. The right hon. Member for Leeds, South (Mr. Rees) has raised a good point. As I understand it, there is no way in the present arrangements whereby we can have a special share. I know of no company—Government owned or privately owned—that has a special share system. Certainly I know of no company which has a special...
Dr Dickson Mabon: They cannot be directors otherwise.
Dr Dickson Mabon: rose—
Dr Dickson Mabon: If the Secretary of State has fewer than half the company's shares, the directors whom he appoints will be obliged by company law to act in the interests of all the shareholders. As the majority of shareholders are not represented by the Secretary of State, directors appointed by him will therefore be bound to act differently from the Secretary of State if they feel that the other...
Dr Dickson Mabon: Is it not true that under the Bill in its present form the Secretary of State, whoever he may be—probably not the right hon. Gentleman—can dispose of the share without parliamentary consent? The undertaking is, therefore, nonsense. It does not mean a damned thing.