Dr Dickson Mabon: I wish also to associate myself with the remarks of my right hon. Friend the Member for East Stirlingshire (Mr. Woodburn). I have sat patiently in the Committee and hoped to draw attention to some matters.
Dr Dickson Mabon: Dr. Dickson Mabon rose—
Dr Dickson Mabon: What were the Conservatives doing?
Dr Dickson Mabon: There was none.
Dr Dickson Mabon: No.
Dr Dickson Mabon: Oh.
Dr Dickson Mabon: I agree that there is a good case for this Bill, at least at first glance, but there are certain doubts in my mind and, while I am naturally inclined to see the Bill go through, I want those doubts removed before I for one agree to it. First, I wish to ask why the present provisions of the National Health Service Act do not cover the eventualities which may arise? I am not suggesting that...
Dr Dickson Mabon: Would the hon. and learned Gentleman not agree nevertheless that if the House agreed to a Private Member's Bill it could be said that we had created a precedent in this matter?
Dr Dickson Mabon: I wonder if the hon. Gentleman will be good enough to give me a further assurance? I am grateful to be assured on the literal application of the present law and the Bill if it were to become law. I accept that. But could the hon. Gentleman say whether the Ministry has in mind any thought of using a Bill of this sort as a precedent for a future Bill for the purpose of imposing charges for...
Dr Dickson Mabon: Will my hon. Friend make clear what happened to the Air Ministry officials who, I understand, were denied access to the meeting? As the Minister will no doubt make that a major point in his speech, perhaps my hon. Friend will explain why that was so and make it clear that those people ought to have been there, to explain the position, much earlier.
Dr Dickson Mabon: Before my hon. Friend builds any more universities and subsidises any more air flights, will he not agree that these things are an outcome of an industrial basis having been established in the North? They come after the benefits of this Bill, if it is to have any effect, have been achieved in practice.
Dr Dickson Mabon: What is the case?
Dr Dickson Mabon: It would be a fair parallel if the right hon. Gentleman were to cut off the industrial basis of Scotland and then consider these problems in the Highlands. That is the parallel with the Republic of Ireland. I am trying to follow the right hon. Gentleman's argument, and to fortify it he should address himself to what Ireland would be like if there were unity.
Dr Dickson Mabon: Surely the right hon. Gentleman, as a man of science, must recognise that long before the State considered the value of this as a pursuit of war it was discussed in academic circles by Niels Bohr and others. All this development has resulted from the work of those men rather than the explosive tendencies of the military.
Dr Dickson Mabon: Shame. Assassination.
Dr Dickson Mabon: Surely that is not a fair compromise when we consider that both these matters are quite different. The hon. Lady was arguing in relation to the Health Service where there is supposed to be the idea of giving services in accordance with needs, irrespective of the moneys available or of cash payments, whereas the hon. Member for Sowerby was arguing the case in relation to old age pensioners and...
Dr Dickson Mabon: No doubt the hon. Member for Ton-bridge (Mr. Hornby) was genuine in his comments on how to try, by economies here and new taxation on the Health Service there, to get our social services in balance and use what money is available better and more wisely for the benefit of the community. That seemed to be the argument of the hon. Gentleman. It is a pity that he did not read the opposition...
Dr Dickson Mabon: As a matter of fact, I was very irritated by that and the undue debating advantage which the Minister had over Private Members. I wrote to the Minister of Agriculture. Fisheries and Food and complained, and asked whether he could supply every hon. Member with such information for a forthcoming debate. I have as yet only had an acknowledgment, and so I should not like to take the point further...
Dr Dickson Mabon: I thought the hon. Gentleman would come forward with that argument. I have the answer, which is perfectly simple. We should ask our experienced seniors, as we do with any other important drugs, to apply these proprietary medicines on scientific terms to a restricted number of individuals and, after having assessed not only their effects but their side effects, to say whether it would be wise...
Dr Dickson Mabon: I am indebted to my hon. Friend for underlining that point. This seems to extend the National Insurance contributions, as apparently is the intention, very far from the original concept of the Service. It may be nearer to the concept of the Service which the Conservative Party has in mind. It is entitled to that so long as it recognises and declares that that is so. The hon. Member for...