Sir Douglas Hacking: It is not necessary to do these things unless you know it is necessary. The right hon. Gentleman will interfere with private enterprise. It is one of his principles to do so, but it is not ours. It is not our principle to interfere with private enterprise unless we know it is necessary.
Sir Douglas Hacking: My noble Friend has made use of the word "sweating." She has no right to use that word. The Minister himself does not say that this is a sweated industry, and he knows more about it even than the noble Lady. Powers are taken in the Bill outside the questions of wages and conditions of employment. The Minister has said that he is not going to interfere with the management. How do we know he is...
Sir Douglas Hacking: If the hon. Gentleman means from employees, the absence of letters proves that they are not interested in this. I can say that I have had as many letters from employees in support of my action as I have had from those opposing it. That is surely proof that they are not interested in the Bill. They are happy to be as they are. The Minister says that he will make inquiry and that the method...
Sir Douglas Hacking: The right hon. Gentleman may say that it is not so, but I will read the Bill and let others say whether I am right. Those who are to be included in the operations of the Bill are: All those employed in any undertaking or part of an undertaking which consists wholly or mainly in the carrying on (whether for profit or not)…of the provision of living accommodation for guests or lodgers. A...
Sir Douglas Hacking: The point is that there is an inquiry. In order to justify this Bill, the right hon. Gentleman commends other Acts of Parliament; most of his speech was referring to other Acts of Parliament, but we are dealing with this Bill and not with past Acts of Parliament. He also applauded the joint industrial councils. He must know that already application has been made from sections of the catering...
Sir Douglas Hacking: The right hon. Gentleman probably knows that a section of the catering industry which has a joint industrial council has made application—
Sir Douglas Hacking: To come under the Trade Boards Act. The right hon. Gentleman is probably playing with words. May I ask whether he has received an application from sections of the catering trade which has been refused by him or postponed by him?
Sir Douglas Hacking: The right hon. Gentleman made a great point about the Essential Work Order. He said that he must have these joint industrial councils and these organisations before he could direct anybody under the Essential Work Order, and then when somebody makes application to come into an organisation such as he desires, in order to give him the opportunity of knowing the wages in the industry, he...
Sir Douglas Hacking: I said the catering industry. It is concerned with canteens, I turn now to the Amendment. We promise in that Amendment to give support to any measures which are necessary for the prosecution of the war. Will this Bill shorten the war by one day? My opinion is that it will not shorten the war. The right hon. Gentleman says that it will, that he must have the Bill for war purposes. If the Prime...
Sir Douglas Hacking: We are not dealing with the Beveridge Report but with this Bill. Perhaps the hon. Member is a little ahead of the time. I do not think that Bill has yet been printed. I ask with sincerity, Did the Government believe that this Bill was necessary because there was a general measure of agreement? That is the pledge The Government knew in fact that 200 Members were opposed to the introduction of...
Sir Douglas Hacking: If there is a general measure of agreement.
Sir Douglas Hacking: The hon. Gentleman is wrong. I am in favour of a full inquiry before legislation takes place, in case legislation should then be found unnecessary. I do not want to waste the time of the House. If, as a result of inquiry, it is found that the conditions are bad, my opposition to any Bill to put matters right goes.
Sir Douglas Hacking: I do want it.
Sir Douglas Hacking: What we object to is an inquiry in secret.
Sir Douglas Hacking: I do want a real public inquiry, and not a hole-and-corner inquiry.
Sir Douglas Hacking: Is my hon. Friend asking me a question? If so, I want to reply to it. The fact is that a Committee of this House reports to the House. This particular Commission reports to the Minister, and the Minister can send back to the Commission anything he dislikes.
Sir Douglas Hacking: May I ask the Leader of the House a question, Mr. Speaker? In view of the very large number of Members who desire to take part in the Debate—he has seen it himself—will he consider the suspension of the Standing Order to enable us to continue this Debate?
Sir Douglas Hacking: In view of the figures in this Division, may I ask the Leader of the House whether he is not now satisfied that there is controversy?
Sir Douglas Hacking: Arising out of the Business for the first Sitting Day, if the Government succeed in obtaining a Second Reading of the Bill on that day, will they consider referring the Bill to a Select Committee immediately after the Second Reading?
Sir Douglas Hacking: My hon. and gallant Friend has withdrawn his Amendment because, although there is a great deal of substance in what he said, nevertheless it is clear that the House is not in complete sympathy with him. I want to return for a few moments to the original Motion appearing on the Order Paper and especially to refer to the pledge that was given by my right hon. and learned Friend the Leader of...