Sir Douglas Glover: I rise on a point of order with great humility and a good deal of distress, because I believe that everybody in the House knows that I hold you, Mr. Speaker, in tremendous regard and think that you have done a magnificent job as Speaker of the House. But what was said by my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Chertsey (Sir L. Heald) is so relevant to this problem. Last week we were...
Sir Douglas Glover: I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow. Cathcart (Mr. Edward M. Taylor) first on his elevation to a position which I have never occupied—I am sure that he will finish his career in the House as Secretary of State—and also on the able way in which he has moved the Amendment. He is a man of great personality, with a great past and a great career in front of him in Parliament....
Sir Douglas Glover: I entirely accept your Ruling, Mr. Speaker, but I think that it is accepted that a Member can use an example, and we are talking about nationalised industries having the power to manufacture—
Sir Douglas Glover: I shall take only a moment, Mr. Speaker. I want to show an example of these powers having been used to the disadvantage of the nation. An old colleague of many of us in the House, Lord Robens, was given those powers. The National Coal Board has gone into manufacturing activities, and in nearly every case he himself would say that they have not been very successful and have turned his and his...
Sir Douglas Glover: It was a very tempting subject, because we hear them so often. If the House decides that a nationalised industry is to have the right to manufacture or engage in certain activities outside its main responsibility, the House has the duty to insist that, when the accounts of the board concerned are presented to Parliament, it can make an assessment of whether the ancillary activity is costing...
Sir Douglas Glover: It is important to get this clear. Is it right to say that wherever one is on the scale, the man below must present a certificate to show that he is all right? If the man below can do this, one is all right?
Sir Douglas Glover: Will the right hon. Gentleman find time in the near future for a debate on the chaos in Committees on Government Bills upstairs? Bill after Bill is being saved from defeat by the casting votes of Chairmen, which he will appreciate is a very bad precedent and is not good for the running of the House.
Sir Douglas Glover: The House accepts, I think, that the hon. Member for Ormskirk (Sir D. Glover) is not unskilled in choosing an opportunity for saying something he wants to say, but I have been waiting 18 years to say what I want to say now. The right hon. Lady the First Secretary and I were political opponents in 1945 and she swept me out of sight in a magnificent victory. The electorate were probably quite...
Sir Douglas Glover: I should like a little clarification Mr. Speaker—and I do sympathise with you in a very difficult position. We are this afternoon creating a precedent. I think that you are well aware of the dangers of creating precedents. As I understand, all that you have ruled is that these two propositions are in order to be on the Order Paper and that it is for the House to reach a decision upon them....
Sir Douglas Glover: On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Did you not mean to call the hon. Member for Rugby (Mr. William Price), to allow him to explain to the House how all this had happened?
Sir Douglas Glover: The hon. Member for Westhoughton (Mr J. T. Price) is an old friend of mine. I usually enjoy his speeches, but tonight his speech was not as good as some that he has made in the past. The hon. Gentleman referred to this place as the High Court of Parliament and also to courts of law. I think that the Government are guilty of a squalid practice and that they ought to be thoroughly ashamed. It...
Sir Douglas Glover: We all congratulate the right hon. Lady on the new Clause. I was not a member of the Committee, and a point which occurs to me concerns referring the question of Service pay to the industrial court. Surely in the Services it is easy to allocate pay on an equal basis, because military ranks are involved, and if a person is doing the same work as others in that rank, it should be possible for...
Sir Douglas Glover: I cannot understand why the Under-Secretary of State has not said that he will accept the Amendment without further ado. Perhaps he intends to do so. My hon. Friend the Member for Leicester, South-West (Mr. Tom Boardman) said that without something similar to the Amendment it would mean that in a particular occupation in an organisation the rates of pay would become the highest rates of pay...
Sir Douglas Glover: Surely this is covered by the Amendment in the words: … than is given to a man employed there on work rated as equivalent or which would be given to a man if one were to be engaged on such work at that establishment. If he transferred women operatives, they would have to be paid at the rate which men were paid to do that work.
Sir Douglas Glover: I support what my hon. Friend the Member for Wycombe (Mr. John Hall) said. There is a great deal to be said for the Amendment. I would not argue about the form of words. What strikes me, as a non-member of the Committee, is that there is all too little about trade union participation in the Bill. I have tabled an Amendment about the rôle and activities of the trade unions. I visualise that...
Sir Douglas Glover: I do not think any hon. Member wishes to be adamant about the wording of the Amendment. No one thinks that it is sacrosanct. It is admitted that there may be weaknesses in its wording. However, we should like to hear from the right hon. Lady the Secretary of State that some provision to deal with the point will be written into the Bill, perhaps in another place. If it is not, the Bill will be...
Sir Douglas Glover: And the girls.
Sir Douglas Glover: Is not what was said by the hon. Member for Salford, West (Mr. Orme) pertinent to this point? The right hon. Lady has said that the matter will be taken to the tribunal, but the tribunal is not in a position to evaluate jobs. Therefore, the hon. Member for Salford, West is right in saying that, whatever the decision of the tribunal, it will have to be taken back to the factory floor to be...
Sir Douglas Glover: On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. The right hon. Lady has not had the courtesy to ask the House for leave to speak again.
Sir Douglas Glover: I beg to move Amendment No. 14, in page 3, line 27, at end insert 'or by the representatives of such persons '.
