Mr David Gibson-Watt: I agree with my hon. Friend, as I said earlier in answer to another question, that there is a big problem. If he wishes to bring representatives of the councils which are under pressure to see me about the matter, I shall be happy to talk to them about it.
Mr David Gibson-Watt: The hon. Gentleman makes a lot of claims. All I can say to him is that up to now we have not issued any specific instructions or advice to local authorities. No doubt there will be such instruction in the foreseeable future.
Mr David Gibson-Watt: I accept what my hon. Friend says.
Mr David Gibson-Watt: The right hon. Gentleman poses a number of questions. With regard to his last question, he knows very well that it is not only the public sector which is important but also the private sector, which is doing extraordinarily well. My answer to his hon. Friend the Member for Cardigan (Mr. Elystan Morgan) about the Welsh Council was correct.
Mr David Gibson-Watt: Will the hon. Gentleman be prepared to give me the details of that matter after the debate?
Mr David Gibson-Watt: indicated dissent.
Mr David Gibson-Watt: indicated assent.
Mr David Gibson-Watt: The hon. Gentleman has made a fair speech and I hope to give him a fair answer. The hon. Gentleman asked whether tests had taken place. Tests have taken place in running water on the verge of roadways, on farmers' land and also further into farmers' land, not just on the side of the road. He asked whether the presence of PCBs in milk was less than two parts in a million. The limit of...
Mr David Gibson-Watt: The hon. Gentleman can read as many newspapers as he likes; I am giving him the benefit of expert advice—
Mr David Gibson-Watt: I will not give way. I have a very short time in which to answer. If the hon. Gentleman bases his arguments on newspaper reports, then I think less of him than I did yesterday. What I am saying to him, if he will take my advice on this, which is based on professional advice, is that the public are in no way being put at risk by milk or food products from the area.
Mr David Gibson-Watt: The hon. Gentleman shakes his head. If he will tell me in the Welsh Office the evidence on which he says that the public are at risk, I will accept it, but if he has no evidence, he has no reason to make those remarks. The Ministry of Agriculture sampling programme started on 11th June, and levels of PCBs have been shown to be below 0·02 parts per million—[Interruption.]
Mr David Gibson-Watt: The sampling began on 11th June and levels of PCBs have been shown to be below 0·02 parts per million of whole milk, a result which is in accordance with the findings of the Glamorgan public analyst, and which is negligible. No TOCP has been found. The Ministry of Agriculture has also arranged to analyse animal tissue for the presence of chemical contaminants, and this is now under way. The...
Mr David Gibson-Watt: May I first deal with the criticism made by the right hon. Member for Cardiff, West (Mr. George Thomas) of my right hon. and learned Friend the Secretary of State for Wales. I remind him that my right hon. and learned Friend spoke on Second Reading and also in the Welsh Grand Committee.
Mr David Gibson-Watt: My right hon. and learned Friend spoke on health service reorganisation. I also remind the right hon. Gentleman that when he was Secretary of State for Wales he gave his Minister of State responsibility for health and hospitals. If he will allow me to say so, that was made clear to all who heard his speech today. As to the relevance of the Sultan of Brunei, the right hon. Gentleman could...
Mr David Gibson-Watt: No, I shall not give way. I am the first to agree that the removal of the Welsh Hospital Board will mean that the Welsh Office and its Ministers will be more closely connected with the National Health Service and even more directly responsible to Parliament for its outside organisation.
Mr David Gibson-Watt: The view put forward by the present Chairman of the Welsh Hospital Board—
Mr David Gibson-Watt: Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
Mr David Gibson-Watt: May I ask the right hon. Gentleman a question? Was the right hon. Gentleman referring to my hon. Friend's Labour predecessor or a Conservative Member who came before?
Mr David Gibson-Watt: I do not see any of the hon. Gentleman's Welsh hon. Friends behind him at present. Can he assure me that some of his Welsh hon. Friends will be speaking on the new clause? Because of the way in which it has been worded I, as Minister of State for Wales, will reply.
Mr David Gibson-Watt: Did the hon. Gentleman make a slip of the tongue when he said "community health council"? I think he meant "community council".