Sir Eric Geddes: Yes.
Sir Eric Geddes: The point raised by the hon. Baronet (Sir W. Joynson-Hicks) is one which is before us and I will ask the House to provide for alternative machinery in the case of Irish local authorities which decline to act. On the other point this has only significance until the Home Rule Bill comes into effect. I would press the hon. Baronet not to endeavour to obtain statutory limitations to the amount...
Sir Eric Geddes: All these services will be transferred to Ireland.
Sir Eric Geddes: Of its own money.
Sir Eric Geddes: I have a great deal of sympathy with the point of view of the Mover of this Amendment. When the original scheme was conceived in 1909 for devoting certain hypothecated revenues to the improvement of the roads, the sum involved was comparatively small. In the first year it was £700,000 and it grew to something like £2,000,000 At that time the arrangement sanctioned by Parliament was that a...
Sir Eric Geddes: I think my hon. Friend was largely instrumental in obtaining the Committee, and I would like to give him credit for it, because I think it is a useful part of the organisation. Let us see how the Committee works. At the time it was set up it was said, "You must not limit the Committee; you must make it free. It must be entitled to consider anything it likes." My hon Friend looked at me and I...
Sir Eric Geddes: I have no doubt he would have been very active. That mere fact shows to my mind the impossibility of using the Advisory Committee for the day to day work of sanctioning expenditure, etc. Imagine the position, with a Committee drawn from all parts of the country, if we had to have them sitting from day to day while we were dealing with the recent question of arterial roads and the...
Sir Eric Geddes: The hon. Baronet has read out the first Clause, but the procedure of the Committee is regulated by Clause 4, which I read. The Committee may make their own Regulations and advise upon any matter at their discretion. I do not wish it to be understood that I desire to remain aloof from the Committee. Advisory Committees fulfil a very useful function, but I do not think, for the reasons I have...
Sir Eric Geddes: I promised to give a forecast.
Sir Eric Geddes: No.
Sir Eric Geddes: If I may say so, I share the anxiety of my hon. and gallant Friend. The expenditure of this sum is really hedged about by many conditions. In the first place, the money is to be raised after a very careful inquiry. There was no dispute as to the amount to be raised, or the way it was to be spent. There was a certain difference of opinion as to the spreading of taxation, but the amount was not...
Sir Eric Geddes: There are nine or ten grants per day. If you are going to make the Advisory Committee responsible in this matter, it must be remembered that the Members are not easily got together? it is different from the days when the Road Board was small. Such procedure as proposed would be hampering the efficiency of the Department. As I say, I have offered to give the House a forecast, an estimate of...
Sir Eric Geddes: The object of the Amendment is one with which I entirely agree. In theory it would be perfectly right to say that the police and local authorities should obtain nett cost. The only reason this has been put in this way is to save money. In certain areas, I am told the Metropolitan area is one, the police are, in fact, out of pocket. I understand from those who have inquired into this matter...
Sir Eric Geddes: This deals with hackney carriages and is not what was covered by the previous Clause. The work will have to be covered just the same. What had to be considered was whether there should be paid the ascertained out-of-pocket expenses or what they get to-day. That would involve an elaborate ascertainment all over the country as to what were out-of-pocket expenses, and as the thing is so very...
Sir Eric Geddes: I will let the hon. Baronet know.
Sir Eric Geddes: I shall be very pleased to discuss it with the hon. Gentleman.
Sir Eric Geddes: The total expenses of the Road Department will come annually before Parliament, and the House will have that opportunity to criticise. I have been in negotiations with the Treasury as to how we should interpret this Clause. I have been able to make an arrangement with the Treasury that it is to be limited strictly to expenditure incurred for the work for which the old road fund was originally...
Sir Eric Geddes: The principle of paragraph (d) was assented to in the Ministry of Transport Act. We have here only a new profession of it. This is necessary because of the huge development in mechanical road traction during the last fifteen or twenty years, more particularly since the War. The reason which actuated the House and the Government in providing that power should be given to contribute to the...
Sir Eric Geddes: No.
Sir Eric Geddes: Yes, it is so.