Mr Tristan Garel-Jones: I do not know what point the hon. Gentleman is seeking to make. Clearly he finds it reprehensible for the Government to accept the will of the House, and reprehensible that discussions should then take place through the usual channels in order for the Government to ascertain what those who tabled the amendment were seeking to do, and to comply with it. I do not regard that as reprehensible; I...
Mr Tristan Garel-Jones: indicated dissent.
Mr Tristan Garel-Jones: I beg to move. That the clause be read a Second time.
Mr Tristan Garel-Jones: During our debates in Committee, it was made clear to the House that the Government would have much preferred not to be tied down by the limitations that are now contained in clause 1, in relation to the Committee of the Regions. However, as I also told the House on 25 February, the Government will now accept the principle that stands in clause 1 of the amended Bill. New clause 42 in the name...
Mr Tristan Garel-Jones: My hon. Friend makes a good point. I believe that the definition includes any person who was properly elected under the democratic process to any local government authority in Britain. I am sure that that extends to parish councils but if, in the course of the debate, I have any reason to believe that is not the case, I will inform the House. Several of my hon. Friends who represent, as I...
Mr Tristan Garel-Jones: The hon. Gentleman must not put words into my mouth. I began my remarks by giving a list of instances in which, on past practice, it is well accepted that an Act of Parliament would be the constitutionally appropriate way for the House to give its assent. The right hon. Member for Bethnal Green and Stepney (Mr. Shore) waggled one of those instances—changes in the electoral process for the...
Mr Tristan Garel-Jones: rose—
Mr Tristan Garel-Jones: indicated dissent.
Mr Tristan Garel-Jones: The House knows that, even if the hon. Gentleman were on these Benches, he would be arguing the same case with the same vehemence. I shall not labour the point further, but his problem is that he has never accepted the treaty of Rome. The hon. Gentleman might have reminded the House that the judicial review to which he referred was won by the Government of the day and that that Government...
Mr Tristan Garel-Jones: In passing, let me ask the hon. Gentleman a question. Were it appropriate, would he like to see similar controls over decisions taken by unanimity in the Security Council of the United Nations, or is it just the Community that he finds offensive? Unanimity is the general rule for common and security policy as set out in article J.8(2): The Council shall act unanimously, except for procedural...
Mr Tristan Garel-Jones: In the United Nations, an organisation that the hon. Gentleman and I strongly support, the United Kingdom seeks, along with other members of the Security Council, to arrive, whenever it can, at consensus and unanimous decisions. The hon. Gentleman, I and most hon. Members regard such international cooperation as a good thing. It is, of course, true that in the context of the United Nations,...
Mr Tristan Garel-Jones: indicated dissent.
Mr Tristan Garel-Jones: I made it clear that the decisions to move to qualified majority voting can be taken only by unanimity—and even then will only be for a limited period. It goes without saying that no United Kingdom Government of any political colour would agree to matters that we would regard as being of great consequences or which had a significant effect on our national interest being decided by qualified...
Mr Tristan Garel-Jones: Perhaps I may continue. Procedures laid down in statute are, by definition, inflexible. If these procedures were found to be deficient in any way or in need of fine tuning, we would require additional legislation to make the necessary changes, however minor they might be. That has two implications, which I ask the House to consider carefully. Changing an Act of Parliament by statute is a...
Mr Tristan Garel-Jones: Let me correct my hon. Friend. I think that clause 3 specifies that if the conditions were ever to pertain for Britain to consider going into a single currency, the matter must be debated in the House first. The essential point that he misses, however, is that a range of weapons is available to the House of Commons, allowing it to scrutinise the way in which Community business is handled. I...
Mr Tristan Garel-Jones: Of course I understand that, but, with the greatest respect, the real position of the right hon. Gentleman—it is a perfectly respectable one, and my hon. Friend the Member for Southend, East (Sir T. Taylor) was prepared to resign from the Administration on account of it, which was not a light decision to take—is that he has never accepted the treaty of Rome. As he says, for 20 years or...
Mr Tristan Garel-Jones: I stand corrected. My hon. Friend is right.
Mr Tristan Garel-Jones: The answer to those three questions is that there is a fourth question. The hon. Gentleman deceives himself. It is a matter of judgment for the House. It is not a question of the different views that are held about the merits of the Maastricht treaty. I believe that the flexibility that the House has to change and alter its procedures will be needed by the House in the years to come as the...
Mr Tristan Garel-Jones: On a point of order, Mr. Morris. At this historic moment, I should like to say a few words on behalf of all members of the Committee. You have just given us some statistics. No doubt the parliamentary "Wisden" experts will, in the coming weeks, let us know whether we have broken any records. There are two things which I am sure that the whole Committee would like me to say. First, when we...
Mr Tristan Garel-Jones: I hope that my hon. Friend will agree that I do not argue, and have never argued, that the British Government or any Government will win every case that comes before the European Court of Justice. In addition, I hope that my hon. Friend will agree that the case to which he is referring at the moment relates to the treaty of Rome as amended by the Single European Act. Presumably my hon. Friend...