Mr John Forrester: I do not know whether my hon. Friend the Member for Islington, South and Finsbury (Mr. Cunningham) has a reference book with him or a computer brain that enables him to carry the differences in his head, but I shall come to that point in a moment. What makes the situation even more difficult is the confusion in the figures between the Department of the Environment and the Association of...
Mr John Forrester: If I go on answering such matters, the Chair will chastise me for taking too long in my remarks. I shall not argue with my hon. Friend, who is one of that select band who belong to the Statistical Association. If the extra money that is going to London will generate future expenditure, and if the other authorities have to slim their spending in order to avoid large rate increases, on the...
Mr John Forrester: A £300-a-year London allowance still leaves a bit to spare for other extras in the cost of living in London. It seems reasonable that if the rates differential is to be abolished the London wage allowances should be reduced at some stage to counteract what Londoners do not have to pay out in extra rates. I accept that the Secretary of State has an impossible job in trying to satisfy...
Mr John Forrester: The hon. Member for Harrow, Central (Mr. Grant) has reminded us that there are nationwide problems common to all areas—areas that may of us thought had no problems. He speaks from great experience as a Minister. I am sorry that when he was a Minister he did not direct all that industry to Staffordshire, as he might have suggested in one of his asides a moment or two ago. [An hon. Member:...
Mr John Forrester: I agree with my right hon. Friend that the main object is to provide better facilities in the urban areas that are within the financial reach of those who wish to use them—widening the base, as has been said. Many problems are concerned with the dual use of facilities, but we all acknowledge that the nation can no longer afford separate grossly under-used facilities in sport. I ask my...
Mr John Forrester: I have been told so on many occasions. The financial affairs of most football clubs, including Stoke City, are not in a good state. We are in the process of imposing extra burdens on them which they are having difficulty in meeting. I welcome the financial arrangements my right hon. Friend is making to enable clubs to meet the new safety regulation. It is just possible that if the facilities...
Mr John Forrester: The hon. Member for Henley (Mr. Heseltine) made a typically vigorous speech, although he did not carry with him everyone on both sides of the House. I was surprised to hear the hon. Gentleman talk about the harshness of the Labour Government. In debate after debate we have been told how harsh the Government should be about public expenditure and how lax they have been. It seems that the words...
Mr John Forrester: I cannot confirm that, but I shall take the hon. Gentleman's word for it. There has been talk in the county of rate increases well above 15 per cent. I wonder whether some authorities are crying "Wolf!" in anticipation of being able to say next May that they have kept the rates down. Certainly the increases will be quite substantial in many areas. I know that authorities with balances are...
Mr John Forrester: That is an interesting suggestion. Perhaps the Department will, in its full-scale review this year, consider whether that would be possible in the light of the public expenditure restrictions.
Mr John Forrester: Social justice is sometimes rough justice. I understand the hon. Gentleman's concern and why he makes that point, knowing the district from which he comes. The document says that local authorities may want to have their own priorities on other environmental services. I wish to plead for the continuation of the grants for land reclamation, the only form of special assistance that Stoke has...
Mr John Forrester: I would first thank the Financial Secretary for his help in achieving cooperation between the Central Board and the North Staffordshire Trustee Savings Bank. The hon. Member for Leek (Mr. Knox) has covered most of the points, but I was concerned about the magic figure of £100 million. The hon. Member for Glasgow, Cathcart (Mr. Taylor) gave me the impression that it might have been imposed...
Mr John Forrester: There is much in what was said by the hon. Member for Isle of Wight (Mr. Ross) but I must resist the temptation to follow him along the road of whence came the orders from on high at the time of local government reform. I am attracted to the hon. Gentleman's views on concessionary fares, which follow closely those of my right hon. Friend the Member for Dartford (Mr. Irving). I hope that the...
Mr John Forrester: The right hon. and learned Member for Hertfordshire, East (Sir D. Walker-Smith) has a long experience and much expertise in these matters. While we all respect those qualities very few of us are able to match them. I thought at one stage that he was, perhaps, wearing his neutral hat when he advocated as much council house building as private building. I am sure he appreciates that it is...
Mr John Forrester: I am sure my hon. Friend has already made that point. I know that he is an expert in insurance. Some insurance peddlers tried to convince me of that doctrine some time in the past. That is, perhaps, a more far-reaching improvement than the one I now suggest. I do not necessarily rule it out, but we should move step by step. Having reached this stage, I think that a mortgage for any amount...
Mr John Forrester: I hope that the hon. Member for Hampstead (Mr. Geoffrey Finsberg) will forgive me for not following him in his arguments. I am certain that those of my hon. Friends who represent London con- stituencies will have a sufficient number of answers for him. I hope that the Minister does not spend the whole of his time answering the hon. Gentleman's points. If he does, he will not have time to...
Mr John Forrester: The hon. Lady the Member for Merton and Morden (Miss Fookes) chastises my right hon. and hon. Friends for not granting every school building request that was put up to the Department when we were in power. I hope that the hon. Lady is not suggesting that every programme that is put up to the present Minister by local education authorities is granted 100 per cent. If that were so, there would...
Mr John Forrester: The finishes on the walls of building, for example. I have discussed this aspect with architects in Stoke and they are seriously concerned that they will have to use short-life materials which will need replacing very quickly. Decoration will need to be done at more frequent intervals than in the past. Another danger in the skimping of building is that local authorities may be tempted to put...
Mr John Forrester: Despite protests to the contrary, the Government have to accept that they are largely responsible for pushing up interest rates. They are hoist by their own petard. The final straw was the Budget's national savings proposals and the £4,000 million borrowing requirement, which has had the effect of leaving the building societies stranded in this muddy junction. It was obvious for months that...
Mr John Forrester: I beg to move Amendment No. 293, in page 196, line 4, at end insert— In the administrative county of Staffordshire—in the rural district of Seisdon, the parishes of Codsall, Lower Penn, Wombourne and Wrottesley. Nevertheless, I wish to concentrate my remarks on Amendment No. 565. It is a great pity that when the Government were drawing up the boundaries for local government they did...
Mr John Forrester: If the hon. Member thinks that the Amendment is political from our point of view he will accept that we are tempted to think that he is being political from his point of view. We were only trying to help the Minister revert to his original proposals in putting down the Amendments in this way.
