Mr Harold McCusker: I acknowledge the success of the RUC, but is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there are certain areas where that success has been limited? If he were to implement my suggestion, would it not divest the RUC of the paramilitary rôle that neither of us wishes it to have?
Mr Harold McCusker: It would be churlish of me if I did not thank the Minister's colleagues in the Whips' Office for their consideration and co-operation in ensuring that we did not have to debate this important order at four or five o'clock on Tuesday morning. I hope that the Minister will convey our thanks to his colleagues. I hope that that move reflects the growing unease at the way in which Northern Ireland...
Mr Harold McCusker: I accept that there will be a problem of demarcation between the Agency and the Ministry. Does the hon. Gentleman accept that a relationship of trust has been built up over the years between the Ministry and both sides of industry? The retention of the conciliatory function will enable the Ministry to keep a toe-hold in industrial relations, which would be useful. It might be possible to lay...
Mr Harold McCusker: The report of the Review Body goes into the question of disclosure of information in great detail. Agreement is already there in principle. I hope that it can be built on, rather than duplicating the section from the Employment Protection Act.
Mr Harold McCusker: I beg to move Amendment No. 5, in page 3, line 27, leave out Clause 4.
Mr Harold McCusker: It is with considerably less enthusiasm than I felt five minutes ago that I rise to speak to the amendment, after hearing the last few comments of the Minister of State. Nevertheless, I shall do my best. Clause 4 and Schedule 2 set up a body to be known as the Fair Employment Appeals Board, which will have a semi-judicial function and will have two very limited aspects. It will be to that...
Mr Harold McCusker: We appreciate that the Minister and his officials have gone into this matter in depth but we, too, have given it serious consideration. Under Part III the court must decide whether an employer has been guilty of an unlawful act against an employee by reason of religious discrimination. That would be a specific instance of someone making a specific complaint against an employee. That is not...
Mr Harold McCusker: The last two contributions have been particularly interesting and enlightening. I can understand the jealousy of the hon. Member for Wokingham (Mr. van Straubenzee), who drafted a lengthy, wordy and defective declaration of principle. I can understand the hon. Member for Belfast, West (Mr. Fitt)—in the Irish Press this is known as Gerry Fitt's Bill—not wanting to be associated with a Bill...
Mr Harold McCusker: I beg to move Amendment No. 21, in page 7, line 35, at end insert— '(a) identifying factors not related to the presence or absence of equality of opportunity which influence those patterns and trends.' We have reached those parts of the Bill which can be described as somewhat unpleasant when one gets down to the nitty-gritty. This clause, although it is one of the shortest in the Bill,...
Mr Harold McCusker: What the Minister said obviously gives us pause, and it may well be there may well be something defective in our amendment. But under the clause in its present form there is undoubtedly a duty on the agency to compile or keep registers of religious affiliation. I do not know how the agency will keep under review "patterns and trends", unless it decides at any moment how many of one religion...
Mr Harold McCusker: I beg to move Amendment No. 34, in page 9, line 28, at end insert: '(2) The action mentioned in subsection (1) of this section shall not include the maintenance of any quota or specific proportion between numbers of employees of different religious beliefs.' In Clause 11 we talked about the duty laid on the agency to keep under review employment trends and patterns in Northern Ireland. In...
Mr Harold McCusker: We are getting into the sort of water we were in in Committee. The hon. Gentleman knows that, despite all the selection techniques in the world—all the tests, psychological, practical or trade, all the examinations of academic attainment, and all experience—there still comes a stage where a recruitment officer has to make a decision, and if everything else is equal his decision is almost...
Mr Harold McCusker: I beg to move Amendment No. 59, in page 20, line 28, leave out from 'under' to end of line 30, and insert: 'this section, the parties shall be the Agency and the appellant'. We debated this matter in fair detail in Committee, and at that stage there was a fair amount of confusion. The Minister assured us that he would consider our comments. This part of the clause deals with the right of an...
Mr Harold McCusker: We are not complaining about that. We fully accept and understand that where an allegation has been sustained by the agency against an employer, the appeal to the county court will be one in which the parties will be the employer and the agency which found against him. We are concerned about a case in which an appeal has been made against a decision by the agency and has not been upheld. In...
Mr Harold McCusker: Because our minds are not clear on this matter, and because there has been some confusion about it, I regret that the Minister is not prepared to consider the matter further. The situation will be that an employee, having made an allegation against his employer and having had the matter diligently examined by the agency—which will consider the issue thoroughly and sympathetically—will be...
Mr Harold McCusker: I beg to move Amendment No. 73, in page 30, line 42, leave out' or mainly'. We argued in Committee that legislation in Northern Ireland which affected recruitment and the selection of workers should apply to anyone recruiting or selecting workers, irrespective of the place at which they were to be employed. A number of hon. Members argued that the situation was hypothetical, that the number...
Mr Harold McCusker: I beg to move Amendment No. 86, in page 53, line 14, at end insert or the religious belief of other persons'. Schedule 4 deals with the conduct of investigations by the agency. We are once again in the delicate area of investigations into the composition of the religious beliefs of employees, a subject which we debated at length in Committee. In Committee I was accused of raising a scare in...
Mr Harold McCusker: I am glad that the Minister has not tried to cover up what some of us consider to be unpleasant aspects of the Bill, because he is conceding that when the agency decides it has to investigate a company, it can go to the managing director or the personnel manager and ask to see the employment files. From the application forms the agency will deduce certain information about the religious...
Mr Harold McCusker: I have never claimed that Northern Ireland is a perfect society with no problems, or that discrimination does not exist. I have suffered as a consequence of some problems in Northern Ireland which have nothing to do with religious discrimination. One of my hon. Friends now in the Chamber comes from the deprived area of the Shankill Road and another from the deprived area of Sandy Row. I come...
Mr Harold McCusker: It is not right.
