Baroness Butler-Sloss: My Lords, I declare an interest as a member of the Council of Reference of Westminster Abbey. Is the Minister aware of how close to home—that is, to Parliament—the financial worries of churches are? The abbey will have a shortfall of about £12 million this year, and £9 million next year, and has decided to shut down the Sunday services at our church, St Margaret’s. However, the dean...
Baroness Butler-Sloss: My Lords, I was delighted by what the Minister had to say about native breeds. None the less, there are a number of amendments in this group which I would like to identify as potentially limiting the financial assistance for native breeds such as Dartmoor, Exmoor or New Forest ponies. They are Amendments 10, 15, 30, 64, 85 and 103. There is a particular concern about Amendment 64, which...
Baroness Butler-Sloss: Rather unusually, my Lords, I speak not to support an amendment but to oppose some. I live in Devon, owned Dartmoor ponies and share the concerns of the Dartmoor Pony Society and other Dartmoor groups about some of the amendments to Part 1 on financial assistance. These groups have no criticism of the present clauses and the financial assistance proposed is much welcome. We are concerned,...
Baroness Butler-Sloss: My Lords, I declare an interest as chairman of the National Commission on Forced Marriage. Will the guidance suggested set out that violence to women includes those in forced-marriage situations, some of whom are under 18 and may need rather different help?
Baroness Butler-Sloss: My Lords, I declare an interest: I was briefly the first chairman of this inquiry, I wrote a report for the diocese of Chichester and gave written evidence to the inquiry. My view is that the inquiry is doing a good job, but what progress has been made on the review of the criminal injuries compensation scheme, which was a recommendation of the interim report?
Baroness Butler-Sloss: My Lords, will the royal commission membership include judges, barristers and solicitors?
Baroness Butler-Sloss: My Lords, I start by reassuring the noble Baroness, Lady Meyer, that if the President of the Family Division has said he will do something, he will do it. Turning to these two amendments, I have the greatest possible sympathy with the proposals in each of them, but I do not think it appropriate that either should be in primary legislation. I would like to see, side by side with the...
Baroness Butler-Sloss: I understand what the noble and right reverend Lord says. The trouble is that I do not think having it in primary legislation will make it any easier for this issue to be resolved. This seems a matter for the Family Division to get on with, to see what it can do to try to deal with this. The Family Procedure Rules have to be obeyed; when I was a family judge, they were as important to me as...
Baroness Butler-Sloss: I wonder whether the noble Baroness would allow me to make the point that in Amendment 3, proposed new subsection (5B) talks about “evidence that the respondent has engaged in deliberate evasion of service or other steps to delay materially the service of the application”. Nothing in this amendment deals with the applicant misbehaving.
Baroness Butler-Sloss: My Lords, before I speak to Amendments 3 and 9A, I should tell your Lordships—in the unusual circumstances—that I certainly have a cough. I have had it since before Christmas; I have been to see my general practitioner, who says that I have a virus, but it is not “the virus”. I hope that noble Lords can be assured that I am not going to spread the coronavirus. I saw my GP and a...
Baroness Butler-Sloss: My Lords, I entirely understand the best intentions of the noble Lord, Lord Farmer, in putting forward this amendment, but my heart sinks to hear it. It is really an effort to rewrite the Matrimonial Causes Act 1973, which we are trying very hard to get away from. I do not know whether the noble Lord understands—I hope he will forgive me for saying it like this—just what a farce the...
Baroness Butler-Sloss: My Lords, I spent 50 years in family law and I have some experience of dealing with parents who are at odds with each other. I have seen the impact on their children. I am very relieved to hear that the noble Lord, Lord McColl, for whom I have the greatest respect, does not wish to test the opinion of the House. I respect and understand his good intentions and those of others putting forward...
Baroness Butler-Sloss: My Lords, I declare an interest in that my grandson, aged 22, spoke at COP 25. What young people will be involved in COP 26?
Baroness Butler-Sloss: My Lords, surely the employer should give the information, not a co-worker.
Baroness Butler-Sloss: My Lords, I absolutely disagree that this is a petitioner’s charter. It is a way of bringing a failed marriage to an end. If noble Lords think about it, if one member of a couple says, “This marriage is at an end; in my view it has irretrievably broken down,” what on earth can you do about it? I am not sure whether noble Lords who have been speaking are expecting a couple who cannot get...
Baroness Butler-Sloss: Of course there are wonderful situations where reasonable couples talk it through and decide not to do it, whether for themselves or for their children. In some cases, that works and in some cases it does not. But there is no doubt that there are many, many people who seek to bring a marriage to an end because, from the point of view of that person, their marriage is no longer one that that...
Baroness Butler-Sloss: I will just finish with the two further points I wanted to make. On the amendment moved by the noble Baroness, Lady Howe, with which, as noble Lords may have gathered, I do not agree, I cannot see how a court can adequately assess whether the children will be better off if the parents, one of whom wants a divorce, are still together or separated. There will be a difficult balancing act for...
Baroness Butler-Sloss: My Lords, I was a family judge for 35 years and spent a great deal, if not most, of my time dealing with families who were divorcing. This is an excellent Bill and few of the amendments ought to go through, except for those of the noble Baroness, Lady Chakrabarti, on the Henry VIII clauses, which require consideration. The view that I take about this Bill is strongly supported by Exeter...
Baroness Butler-Sloss: I am sorry to interrupt the Minister but, following on from an earlier question, would it be possible to have a more wide-ranging discussion and invite other people to attend, so that the NHS team, plus the Minister and the Department for Health and Social Care, could meet them to discuss this? Currently, I think the Government have got it wrong.
Baroness Butler-Sloss: My Lords, I declare an interest as a vice-president of Hospiscare Exeter, mid and east Devon, which works successfully to keep terminally ill people at home, usually to the last week—often, they die at home. We are appealing for money to make this a 24-hour service; currently, it is daily and we hope to do it overnight. The ideal situation for our hospice is where most people die at home....