Viscount Bridgeman: The noble Baroness has tabled important amendments with which we once again have considerable sympathy. I, too, invite the Minister to agree that, as drafted, the Bill gives great power to police to close brothels on nothing but speculation and rumour. We agree with the noble Baroness that brothels should not be closed without good reason, with all the associated danger for prostitutes...
Viscount Bridgeman: Again, we have sympathy with these amendments. They would add an important requirement to ensure that the police operate with the safety of those working within the brothels in mind. As previous debates have highlighted, it is often unclear where the line of exploitation is to be drawn. As the noble Baroness emphasised, it is imperative that when considering a closure order the police should...
Viscount Bridgeman: We support the amendments. I hope the Minister will be able to reassure us that nothing in this Bill would go against the safeguards that her new clauses seek to insert. Amendment 71 raises an important point about those people working in incidental jobs in premises which are closed down. There is nothing to be gained by criminalising those who have done nothing wrong but work at a business...
Viscount Bridgeman: We support the noble Baroness, Lady Miller. We agree that the effect of the Bill is very likely to be to take women on to the streets from reasonably safe places, as the provisions that we shall debate later emphasise. What is the definition of a public place?
Viscount Bridgeman: This gives me an opportunity to ask the Government about a matter that the noble Baroness has raised, if not specifically. What else are the Government doing to help prostitutes to find work? Associated with that is again the question of resources, to which we referred in an earlier amendment, as did the noble Baroness, Lady Stern.
Viscount Bridgeman: I am grateful to noble Lords who have spoken to this amendment. It is clearly a very involved subject, and my noble friend Lady Hanham has raised one or two points. I noted a reference in the Minister's speech to it appearing on the face of the Bill. We shall carefully analyse the speech in Hansard. In particular, we will want to know how much of the arrangements for the rehabilitation of...
Viscount Bridgeman: Following the last debate, I turn to the question of the "suitable person". Just as the Bill is largely silent on the details of the meetings, so too is it lacking in any detail on the qualifications, training or experience expected of that person. The role will be critical if the meetings are to have any effect at all. The person will not only have the responsibility to identify what...
Viscount Bridgeman: All sides of the Committee will share the concern to get this enormously important subject of rehabilitation as right as we possibly can. I am grateful to the Minister for his reply and for his offer to write to us before Report. In the mean time, we shall read carefully the report in Hansard. I have no doubt that we shall come back to this on Report. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment....
Viscount Bridgeman: I have some sympathy with the amendment. I find it deeply frustrating that the Government continue to tinker with existing legislation on prostitution rather than engage in a thorough review of the enormous number of Acts and offences around the subject. Although I support the Government's rather weak attempts to remove some of the stigma from those seeking to find a way out of prostitution...
Viscount Bridgeman: Amendments 67 and 68 seek to probe further the requirement to attend meetings. In particular, I hope the Minister can give us some detail about what these meetings will consist of. A considerable amount of research material has been published analysing the factors that lead a woman into prostitution and keep her there. These factors are diverse and frequently of a very serious nature,...
Viscount Bridgeman: My Lords, I, too, thank my noble friend Lord Jopling for initiating this debate and congratulate Sub-Committee F on this comprehensive report. Perhaps I may also associate myself with remarks made by other noble Lords about how pleased we are to see the noble Lord, Lord Roper, back in his place. Let us first look at Europol's successes in the 17 years of its existence. They include the...
Viscount Bridgeman: The dinner hour came rather unexpectedly; I was caught out by not being able to thank the Minister for his full explanation of the whole of this clause. As we draw our scrutiny of the clause to a close, I am reminded by the remark of the noble Baroness, Lady Henig, who is not in her place—she said, "That's not quite how it works"—of the delicate relationship between the Secretary of...
Viscount Bridgeman: I am grateful to the Minister for that reply and I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment 36 withdrawn. Clause 5 agreed. Clauses 6 and 7 agreed Amendment 37 Moved by Lord West of Spithead 37: After Clause 7, insert the following new Clause— "Authorisations of covert human intelligence sources: conditions (1) Section 29 of the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000 (c. 23)...
Viscount Bridgeman: I am most grateful and beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment 30 withdrawn. Amendments 31 to 35 not moved. House resumed. Committee to begin again not before 8.38 pm.
Viscount Bridgeman: I have been asked by my noble friend Lord Bates, who cannot be in his place, to remind the noble Baroness, Lady Harris, that Cleveland is not only a very small force but a very fine one. The Secretary of State remains on stage, because the amendments in this group seek to explore the involvement that the Secretary of State will have in collaboration agreements. We have been discussing the...
Viscount Bridgeman: Once again the noble Baronesses, Lady Henig and Lady Harris of Richmond, have made a good case for the insertion of the amendment. Can the Minister say how much of a role the Government intend to give chief officers in deciding whether or not a collaboration agreement should go forward?
Viscount Bridgeman: We find Amendments 19 and 21 very sensible because, as the noble Baroness, Lady Harris, has said, they are designed to relate to the interests of the efficiency or effectiveness of one or more police forces. I particularly take the point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Henig, that firing the chief police officer would be a draconian move. I also very much support the amendment in the name of...
Viscount Bridgeman: The noble Lords, Lord Harris of Haringey and Lord Bradshaw, have made some very telling points, and we look forward to the Minister's reply.
Viscount Bridgeman: I think the Minister is not being quite specific enough about the intentions behind this clause. We will certainly address this in future stages of the debate. Is the Minister in a position to go a little further now?
Viscount Bridgeman: I understand. I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Harris of Richmond, for her support. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment 9 withdrawn. Amendment 10 Moved by Baroness Hanham 10: Clause 2, page 3, line 31, at end insert— "( ) In Section 54(2A) of that Act (inspection and report powers of inspectors of constabulary) at end insert, "and, in the case of the Police Senior...
