Viscount Brookeborough: My Lords, I rise to support the amendment. What we have really been discussing in relation to the Bill is operational reforms and, to a certain extent, operational reforms which are intended to act as a carrot to the other side; namely, to the terrorists, both loyalist and republican. Quite frankly, we have been told that if we give up the present composition of our police force--relinquish...
Viscount Brookeborough: My Lords, I rise to support this amendment. There are many on the government Benches and on the Liberal Democrat Benches who seem to disagree with us on this issue this evening. Those noble Lords may feel that it is inappropriate for the badge of the RUC to be retained by the new police force. But your Lordships must look at the harp and the shamrock for a moment. They are both older than the...
Viscount Brookeborough: My Lords, I thank the Minister for giving way. I did not say that they said it would not work, or that they said anything like that about the Bill. What I said was that they did not know how to work this system.
Viscount Brookeborough: My Lords, the point is that, having got candidates for the pool, there will be a variation in the ability and aptitude of those people. The numbers will be greater than required--I do not mean in terms of Catholics or Protestants. It would be a fool who did not then choose people out of the pool according to their merits, in terms of either ability, aptitude or some form of qualification.
Viscount Brookeborough: My Lords, I am not talking about discrimination; I am merely saying that once these people are in the pool, there will be more people than are required and one must still, presumably, take the best of them first. Some people will have just scraped in according to the required level. A few others, however, may make wonderful chief constables by one's estimation. Does it mean that such a person...
Viscount Brookeborough: My Lords, I rise to support Amendment No. 8. I fully support the intention of gaining the 50:50 balance or at least of ensuring that Roman Catholics and other groups are correctly and proportionately represented within the police. I would point out that the system being discussed is also applicable, under Clause 46(5), to the police support staff. They should all come under the same...
Viscount Brookeborough: My Lords, I believe that the independent members are being discriminated against. I shall not talk about the criminal activities--I made myself clear during the previous debate about the board. The DPPs will replace police liaison committees. Are the same indiscretions permitted on those committees? The liaison committees have been particularly instrumental in bringing the two communities...
Viscount Brookeborough: My Lords, I support the amendments. What the law-abiding citizens of Northern Ireland are being asked to put up with is unbelievable. The police are prepared in the course of their day-to-day duty to get injured in the way that the noble Lord, Lord Laird, described or to lay down their lives for the safety of the people of Northern Ireland or of any one of us who travels there. We are asking...
Viscount Brookeborough: My Lords, I rise to support this amendment. I do not see why we need on the face of the Bill the possibility or availability of co-operation. I do not see why it cannot be on a much more casual and flexible basis when it comes to the two police forces. I accept that governments may need legislation to permit them to do certain things between themselves. But the police forces are already...
Viscount Brookeborough: My Lords, I cannot agree with Amendment No. 62. I believe that the emblem should stay. Failing that, we should not tie the Secretary of State's hands as does the provision in Amendment No. 62 that any emblem, "shall be entirely free of any association with". That seems ludicrous. The Secretary of State already has to consult the board, the Chief Constable, the police association and any other...
Viscount Brookeborough: My Lords, I rise briefly to support the amendment. I believe that the police district commands, as they were taken on from Great Britain police forces, are defined as being areas which can operate under normal circumstances without outside support. In no way can one consider dividing Belfast, which is a small area, into self-contained units which do not need outside support. Any crime...
Viscount Brookeborough: My Lords, I rise to support these amendments. I say to both the noble Lords, Lord Alton and Lord Desai, and the Government that their arguments sound plausible but are based on one major assumption. They are wrong to assume that, having changed the name, there will be increased participation in, and enthusiasm for, the service by the Catholic Church, the SDLP and Sinn Fein. Many noble Lords...
Viscount Brookeborough: My Lords, before the noble Lord sits down, will he not agree--to continue his argument a little further--that these terrorist crimes are not just committed in Northern Ireland in ignorance of the Northern Ireland police, but also in the Republic of Ireland where there is a police force which is loyal to the government there?
Viscount Brookeborough: My Lords, I rise to support this amendment because of its flexibility. First, the noble Lord, Lord Dubs, mentioned that there did not appear to be many complaints as a result of night-time rambling in the Lake District. I do not believe that we are comparing like with like. The Lake District is a largely uninhabited area in the uplands. People who go there go properly equipped and are used to...
Viscount Brookeborough: My Lords, I support the amendment. Perhaps I may offer the Government a suggestion. We have heard already that the MoD has sanctuaries in many places--on Salisbury Plain, at Lulworth Cove and so on--and that it is one of the best custodians of conserved land in this country. If we look at the way in which it manages such areas, we will find that the MoD has become very flexible in its...
Viscount Brookeborough: My Lords, I wish to make two points in support of the amendment. First, of what benefit will it be to those people who want to enjoy the countryside to be able to walk around the buildings? They are there to enjoy the countryside. That is why we are giving them access to it. Secondly, before the Minister tells me to go back to Northern Ireland--that is not relevant to this argument and I...
Viscount Brookeborough: My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for giving way. What is the definition of "improved"? We have land at home that we wanted to plant out with trees. We obtained one level of grant for improved land and one level for unimproved land as defined by the Ministry of Agriculture. For improved land there has to be a certain percentage of certain types of grasses. There is very good unimproved...
Viscount Brookeborough: My Lords, first, I apologise for not having been here for the earlier stages of the Bill. I support these amendments. At my home, groups of people ask permission to walk across our land and on many occasions we permit them to do so. However, people must be kept away from standing crops of hay which are to be cut for silage. Many people wonder what happens to the crops if they are walked on....
Viscount Brookeborough: I support the amendment. The widows, the injured and the retired are proud and honourable. Rather like the war widows, discussed in recent months in this place, they will not go begging. The reason we are here is to look after people who have given such service to their country. We should do that by introducing, if not this amendment, an amendment to the same effect.
Viscount Brookeborough: Before the noble Baroness sits down, can she tell us if the Irish Government have stated that they felt that they must legislate in exactly this way in order to keep their side of any bargain that may be in the offing?
