Baroness Falkner of Margravine: My Lords, I thank the Minister for that. Would he be able to provide figures in writing on how many people this might affect?
Baroness Falkner of Margravine: My Lords, I, too, am enormously grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Dubs, for giving us, even on this last day of term, the opportunity to turn our attention to this most important report concerning the use of restraint in secure training centres. I am somewhat puzzled that the Ministry of Justice is not dealing with this issue. The Minister was in the Chamber earlier. I recognise the locus of...
Baroness Falkner of Margravine: My Lords, I thank the Minister for giving way. I wanted to come back in before he concluded. He has not covered some of the issues that I raised, particularly in relation to why his department rather than the Ministry of Justice is dealing with the debate. Leaving that aside, can he tell us—
Baroness Falkner of Margravine: My Lords, I was just coming to my question. In future, when the Government's response to a committee report comes out just one sitting day before the debate itself, would the department be kind enough to draw our attention to it by e-mail or send us an electronic copy?
Baroness Falkner of Margravine: My Lords, I, too, thank my noble friend Lady Nicholson for initiating this debate. As someone else in this Chamber from Pakistani origin, I recognised the picture that she painted, gloomy though it was. I congratulate her on bringing some of those serious issues to the attention of this House. I declare an interest as UK patron of the Pakistan Human Development Commission, which concerns...
Baroness Falkner of Margravine: My Lords, is the Minister aware that the Pakistan Government are, as we speak, meeting in a joint session of Parliament to try to resolve the security situation along that border? Is he also aware that the new head of Inter-Services Intelligence—ISI—has told parliamentarians in his briefing that the military concedes that the peace talks with the Taliban along the border have not...
Baroness Falkner of Margravine: My Lords, the Statement is full of implications concerning the lack of patriotism among Members of this House. I regret that the noble Lord, Lord West of Spithead, whose integrity we are absolutely sure of, has not used this opportunity to dissociate himself from the Home Secretary's comments, as the noble Lord, Lord Dear, asked him to do. My question concerns the detail of the Bill, and I do...
Baroness Falkner of Margravine: My Lords, can the Minister confirm that the contracts between the Ministry of Justice and contracted-out prisons impose a penalty of 50 points if a weapon is discovered in a prison, a penalty of 10 points for a serious assault on a prison officer, but a penalty of only one point for the death of a prisoner? Is that true? If so, what priority does he place on the most fundamental human right:...
Baroness Falkner of Margravine: moved Amendment No. 89: Clause 56, page 39, line 25, leave out sub-paragraph (v)
Baroness Falkner of Margravine: Amendments Nos. 89 to 92, in my name and that of my noble friend Lady Miller, deal with two issues: first, how we deal with juveniles and the insane; and, secondly, whether it is appropriate to use the notification procedure for those two classes of offenders, or whether there are more appropriate ways of dealing with them. We accept that the simple fact that someone is young does not make...
Baroness Falkner of Margravine: I am only mildly encouraged by the Minister's reply. I am saddened, particularly, that in his response he has not disaggregated the qualifications for juvenile offenders/children versus those who are insane or mentally diminished. Were he prepared to go some way in the case of one group, I would have been further encouraged, particularly if he were to go further in the way of children....
Baroness Falkner of Margravine: moved Amendment No. 98: Clause 64, page 45, line 3, leave out "an indefinite period" and insert "five years"
Baroness Falkner of Margravine: These amendments are also in the name of my noble friend Lady Miller. Before I go to the specifics of this clause—and I am having a second bite of the cherry—I want to say a few words by way of background briefing to these amendments. The noble Lord knows that situations will arise where the court and indeed the authorities accept that a person convicted of a serious terrorist offence in...
Baroness Falkner of Margravine: I am disappointed with the Minister's reply for a number of reasons. First, he keeps reminding us that the offences would be serious ones and that is why it is necessary to have an indefinite requirement to notify the authorities. Of course, the sum of the measures in the amendments is not necessarily to reduce the term for which the person would be required to notify the authorities. We are...
Baroness Falkner of Margravine: Sometimes it is advantageous to have fewer people in the Committee because we can shift positions and reach a consensus more easily when we are lonelier. I thank the noble and learned Lord for his interesting suggestion. I am extremely grateful to the Minister for his emollience in this matter. I look forward to working with him to see whether we can get anywhere. On that basis, I beg leave...
Baroness Falkner of Margravine: moved Amendment No. 105: Schedule 5, page 85, line 43, at end insert ", and (c) the court exercising jurisdiction under that law has not, in respect of the corresponding foreign offence, relied on evidence or information obtained through torture, duress or other means that would render such evidence or information inadmissible in a court in the United Kingdom."
Baroness Falkner of Margravine: In speaking to this amendment, I speak also on behalf of my noble friend Lady Miller. The purpose of this amendment is to enable the Minister to give assurances in respect of the schedule and conditions for making a notification order concerning an offence that is tried under law enforced in a country other than the United Kingdom. All we are seeking to do is to insert some additional...
Baroness Falkner of Margravine: The evening is becoming more and more satisfactory as we progress. I heard what the Minister said about the wide interpretation. If I were a lawyer, I would no doubt have seen the red lights myself. I am extremely pleased to hear that we will be returning to this. Might I suggest to him that when his legal counsel has drafted a revised amendment, he might wish to send us an explanatory note...
Baroness Falkner of Margravine: There is an issue that I am not sure the noble Lord has dealt with concerning people who hold dual nationality. Some 400,000 British citizens a year travel to Pakistan. Many of them hold dual nationality. Were they to wish to circumvent these restrictions, how practical would the restrictions be? They could simply book their ticket, travel and re-enter under their other passport, so these...
Baroness Falkner of Margravine: I did not intend to speak, although I was intrigued by the clause, as was the noble Baroness, Lady Neville-Jones. The Minister's reply concerns me, because he has more or less said to the Committee that the word is there only because my noble friend Lord Carlile thought that it was appropriate to have it there. We do not know why the noble Lord wanted it there, and the Minister seems to think...