Mr Gareth Thomas: I am grateful to the Minister for her exposition. I am not entirely sure whether she has answered my query about the applicability of such a clause to business tenancies.
Mr Gareth Thomas: If I understand the Minister correctly, the Government are prepared to be open-minded about consulting, at a later stage, on a measure dealing with commercial leases.
Mr Gareth Thomas: On Second Reading, I raised the issue of the need to regulate property managers in order to avoid abuse and exploitation, particularly of older people. There is some support among Labour Members for the sentiments expressed by the hon. Member for Stone. The Government need to re-examine the issue of regulation of property managers. The area is prone to abuse.
Mr Gareth Thomas: I agree entirely with the sentiments behind the Government amendment and I support it. I would like the Minister to address this issue, because it arises from my own constituency interests and those of the hon. Member for Meirionnydd Nant Conwy (Mr. Llwyd). We both represent seaside resorts on the north Wales coast. He represents Llandudno, that jewel of north Wales resorts. In that part of...
Mr Gareth Thomas: I am grateful for that gentle reprimand, Mr. Hurst, which I accept in the spirit in which it was intended. Why should the welcome concession in the Government's new clause be confined to private dwelling houses? My understanding is that many hotel owners, probably not only those on the north Wales coast, are required by the freeholder to use a nominated insurer. That is certainly the case...
Mr Gareth Thomas: My hon. Friend is making important points. The mechanism that she refers to is an improvement on the law as it stands, as it provides an important sifting process. It is intriguing that, provided that the freeholder or landlord can establish that a breach has occurred simpliciter, he does not have to establish the seriousness or nature of the breach. That does not come into the equation. Is...
Mr Gareth Thomas: The hon. Gentleman makes an important point when he says that the real abuse is not so much that forfeiture occurs in many instances—indeed, it appears not to—but that landlords use the threat oppressively. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that we could make an important improvement to the Bill by introducing a mechanism to penalise landlords who use the threat of forfeiture recklessly,...
Mr Gareth Thomas: I congratulate my hon. Friends on the cogent manner in which they have presented their arguments on the clause. I share many of the sentiments expressed, although I would perhaps not go as far as others, because I accept that as a long stop it is necessary to preserve the landlord's right to forfeit in exceptional circumstances. I hope that the Minister will be able to respond constructively...
Mr Gareth Thomas: I understand the strength of that argument, but it might be more appropriate to ask the Minister. To conclude on what I hope is a valid point, the parliamentary draftsmen could tackle the issue before Report stage. There is surely a lacuna in clause 160.
Mr Gareth Thomas: Does not the case that my hon. Friend cites illustrate the need for a test of proportionality or reasonableness to be introduced into the clause, even if the Government are not prepared to go so far as withdrawing the remedy of forfeiture which one can, perhaps, accept is a remedy that should be available to a landlord in the last resort?
Mr Gareth Thomas: It is clear to me from dealing with constituents who have problems with tenure, especially with retirement leasehold property, which is a feature of the area that I represent, that there is a need for the advice and persistence provided by LEASE. I do not share the views of the hon. Member for Torbay. My impression of the professionalism and competency of LEASE is favourable. I introduced a...
Mr Gareth Thomas: I am grateful for that clarification. LEASE's burden of work will increase if the Government introduce a sunset clause, which would make commonhold a standard form of tenure for new developments. As the only Welsh Member present, perhaps it is appropriate for me to remark that this Government introduced devolution in Scotland and Wales. We can be proud of that achievement, which is part of...
Mr Gareth Thomas: Before we move away from part 1 of the Bill, which my hon. Friend will agree has been dealt with speedily, I have a point to which he could respond. If a sunset clause is not to be introduced in relation to leasehold for new developments, does he agree that the need for advice will be somewhat limited? He might want to reflect on the fact that there was considerable disquiet on Second...
Mr Gareth Thomas: I shall confine my remarks since a number of hon. Members who have a real interest in the subject, which affects many of our constituents, wish to be called to speak. The House has grappled with the fundamental issue of how to deal with the imbalance of power between landlords and leaseholders for many years, and I suspect that we will have to revisit the subject. I also suspect that although...
Mr Gareth Thomas: The fact that this debate so far has been couched in technical terms and complex language may lead an outside observer to believe that this is an esoteric matter. It is not. My right hon. Friend the Member for Birkenhead (Mr. Field) did the House a service by bringing this debate to life. He is more sceptical about the Bill's implications than I am, but he was right to say that while the...
Mr Gareth Thomas: I defer to my right hon. Friend's great experience, but does he accept that his trumpeting of the national minimum wage makes the position that he outlined earlier contradictory? Is not the minimum wage an example of the Government intervening to improve people's conditions?
Mr Gareth Thomas: I agree with a large part of what the Minister has said, but will the Government reconsider, with a view to amending, the regulations within which the gas industry must operate?
Mr Gareth Thomas: I am pleased to have the opportunity to present a debate on a subject that is of interest not only to Wales, but to many people throughout the United Kingdom. I am also pleased to see the Under-Secretary of State for Trade and Industry, the hon. Member for Welwyn Hatfield (Miss Johnson), in the Chamber. I hope that she can respond positively to some of the issues that I raise. There are...
Mr Gareth Thomas: We are debating an amendment on the timing of the implementation of these changes. Does the hon. Gentleman accept that there has been extensive consultation with regard to the broad thrust of the Government's policy? He need only remind himself that the Government have published several consultation papers over a long period of time, such as ``The NHS Plan: A plan for investment, A plan for...
Mr Gareth Thomas: If she will make a statement on steps taken to co-ordinate flood prevention.
