Mr Gareth Thomas: The hon. Gentleman puts his finger on an important point, which I hope the Minister will be able to answer. I am not sure what the provision represents. Is it the worst-case scenario or is it more in line with the system that operates in Wales? I speak as a Welsh Member, but these issues are common to both England and Wales. The figures show that for the period up to 31 March 2001 the NHS in...
Mr Gareth Thomas: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman. One of the purposes of the debate is to tease out these issues. We need to clarify the accounting basis. I want to refer to the views of the lawyers. I express a peripheral interest as a lawyer, although I have not had any experience of clinical negligence cases, at least in the recent past. Lawyers involved in that specialist field of litigation take a...
Mr Gareth Thomas: I agree. There is a disproportion between the level of award and the costs that accompany awards, particularly for small claims. That is worthy of serious attention. Some interesting figures in the chief medical officer's report in 2000 suggested the scale of the problem. It indicated that no less than 10 per cent. of admissions to hospitals resulted in some adverse event. I suspect that some...
Mr Gareth Thomas: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for drawing attention to what I believe is the fundamental issue. I must part company with him, because I do not share the views of Professor Ian Kennedy. I do not take the view that clinical negligence litigation should be scrapped and that it is itself responsible for an epidemic of secrecy and a cover-up culture. I would say the reverse. As I said...
Mr Gareth Thomas: I agree with the hon. Gentleman. It would be difficult for anyone to disagree that there must be a speeding up of the process, especially for smaller claims. The Government are taking steps to deal with the problem. As I have said, there is greater emphasis on risk management, better clinical governance and prevention. I welcome the advent of the NHS Litigation Authority, which now...
Mr Gareth Thomas: I said that the level of growth in clinical negligence claims has declined. The figures are rising, but the rate of increase has declined. I did not refer to the United States. I think that the hon. Gentleman misheard me. The NHS plan calls for reform and, in an important initiative, the Government set up the chief medical officer's committee on clinical negligence in July 2001. The committee...
Mr Gareth Thomas: In relation to negligence cases, the medical profession is in a favoured position—I do not say that in a critical way—because the law has accepted that an element of judgment always needs to be exercised. There are circumstances in which one doctor may carry out a particular procedure in one way, and another doctor may undertake it in a different way, or go about the problem differently....
Mr Gareth Thomas: I think that there is scope for considering rehabilitation, and perhaps providing, effectively, an indemnity to those who suffer medical accidents, so that they will be looked after. Of course, there is an issue concerning the current legislation because, as the Minister will know, the measure of damages in clinical negligence cases assumes that the cost of future care will be obtained from...
Mr Gareth Thomas: That is worthy of close attention and I take the point. It will be interesting to hear what the Minister says about that. I take the view that clinical negligence litigation has begun to open up the medical profession. I believe that people need an effective means of redress. There are problems with the complexity and delays of the present system. We should go about reform. I know that the...
Mr Gareth Thomas: And to candidate countries.
Mr Gareth Thomas: This is not just a good Budget, it is a very good Budget. It is a courageous Budget and it is an important Budget because it will set the course for the Government for the remainder of this Parliament and, I hope, well beyond. It has a greater significance because it throws into stark relief the dividing lines between the Labour and Conservative parties. The Conservatives are committed to a...
Mr Gareth Thomas: Can we take it therefore that the right hon. Gentleman now regrets the implementation of the internal market, which his Government introduced, which was responsible for a huge mushrooming of unnecessary government, and which this Government have abolished?
Mr Gareth Thomas: What assessment he has made of the adequacy of pension provision in the UK.
Mr Gareth Thomas: I thank my right hon. Friend for that reply. Does he accept that there is real concern that people are not making adequate provision for their retirement? Does he also accept that the Government have a crucial role in educating the public and encouraging them at an early stage to make adequate provision for retirement, given the fact that there is a decline in occupational pensions and that...
Mr Gareth Thomas: The Prime Minister: I thought it was a very good question. My hon. Friend is of course absolutely right. The Conservatives never like being reminded that when they were in office interest rates were at 15 per cent. for a year and at 10 per cent. for four years, there was savage underinvestment in our public services, and unemployment rocketed. Fortunately, under this Government we have the...
Mr Gareth Thomas: As the hon. Gentleman has said, the Government have given way and made concessions on other contentious issues. Does not that rather undermine his point that the Government's opposition on this issue is not principled and that they are stubborn?
Mr Gareth Thomas: I sat on the Standing Committee, and I confess that there were times during the Committee stage when I would have liked to be part of a fact-finding mission to Hawaii or Honolulu. The fact remains that there has been ample opportunity to test the argument on the unanimity point. I am prepared to accept that the Government have considered the position carefully in this place and another place....
Mr Gareth Thomas: I cannot answer that question—nor, realistically, do I think the hon. Gentleman expected me to. I hope that my hon. Friend the Minister will have a stab at it. Surely the point is that such schemes have a reputation for being too unwieldy and complex and for being the scene of constant dispute, and that they will therefore be a disincentive for the take-up of commonhold. I refer to the...
Mr Gareth Thomas: The hon. Gentleman did not mishear me. That is how I understand the position. Those who convert would have to find the means to buy the freehold in respect of the co-existing leaseholds. Another complication that would arise is that existing leases would have to be amended to take into account the dual regime. I am sure that the Government have considered the disquiet that Labour Members have...
Mr Gareth Thomas: indicated dissent
