Mr Gareth Thomas: My hon. Friend has put her finger on the problem with the Bill. First, it is necessary to establish the category of exemptions, how broad a category it should be and precisely how it should be defined. Does she accept that that in itself is problematic, before one even begins to look at the other vexed question of defining exempted and non-exempted use?
Mr Gareth Thomas: After today's announcement by my right hon. Friend the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food on the outcome of the Brussels negotiations on common agricultural policy reform, this debate has become rather more topical than I had expected it would be. May I express my pleasure that the Under-Secretary of State for Wales, my hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff, Central (Mr. Jones), has...
Mr Gareth Thomas: I beg to move, That leave be given to bring in a Bill to amend the law with regard to leaseholds in relation to housing for older people; and for connected purposes. The case for reform of leasehold law is overwhelming and is recognised by many, not least the Government. Leasehold law embraces a feudal system and is a relic of the past. It creates a gross imbalance in terms of power and...
Mr Gareth Thomas: The hon. Gentleman does not represent Wales or have the benefit of parliamentary colleagues who could advise him on the situation that prevailed in Wales before the election. If he had, he would realise that there is a media deficit in Wales, which does not have a national printed press such as the Scots enjoy. There was therefore a need for objective information sponsored by the Government...
Mr Gareth Thomas: Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Mr Gareth Thomas: I share my hon. Friend's scepticism about the role of referendums and his fear that they will undermine the strength of Parliament. Although the Government were divided in 1975, that is no reason to argue against referendums—indeed, we could argue that a referendum should be held when a major constitutional issue must be determined and none of the political parties can reach a consensus...
Mr Gareth Thomas: My hon. Friend points out correctly that the Neill committee called for fair rules in referendums. Does my hon. Friend agree that the problem with this Bill is that it lacks a series of controls recommended by the Neill committee, such as the requirement to register any campaigning group or individual intending to incur expenditure of more than £25,000? It also lacks any provision to ban...
Mr Gareth Thomas: The right hon. Gentleman said that, in a couple of instances, the Neill report had arrived at the wrong conclusion. I would suggest that it also arrived at the wrong conclusion about the spending limits for referendums. Does the right hon. Gentleman accept that one of the criticisms of, and concerns about, the 1975 referendum was the wide disparity in the funding of the two campaigns, and...
Mr Gareth Thomas: My hon. Friend has obviously conducted wide research for his speech. Was he able to look at the Home Affairs Committee report on electoral law and administration? If he has seen it, would he comment on the evidence presented by Dr Butler and Professor Blackburn, who expressed concern at the large number of bodies with a role in the electoral process? One of their arguments in favour of an...
Mr Gareth Thomas: I am prepared to accept that the hon. Member for Blaby (Mr. Robathan) tabled the Bill in an altruistic spirit. He seems to be good-humoured individual. I am prepared to accept that, although there is a battle raging within the ranks of the official Opposition on the role of Britain in Europe and on the single currency, the hon. Gentleman's main motive, if not that of his colleagues, in...
Mr Gareth Thomas: I give way to my hon. Friend. It is always a pleasure to give way to my namesake.
Mr Gareth Thomas: Does my hon. Friend think it a shame that the official Opposition spokesperson did not have the courage to take a few more interventions? Does he think also that it is a little rich for Conservative Members to be asking questions about our democratic credentials when they opposed any attempt to establish the equivalent of the Neill committee at a much earlier stage?
Mr Gareth Thomas: My hon. Friend raises a significant point with which, he will not be surprised to learn, I agree wholeheartedly. As I have said, I am prepared to give the hon. Member for Blaby the benefit of the doubt. I agree with the valid points made by the right hon. Member for South Norfolk (Mr. MacGregor). However, the Bill contains many defects and lacunae, and in my view should not receive a Second...
Mr Gareth Thomas: My hon. Friend raises a fundamental point. Many Labour Members could be forgiven for thinking that the fact that there is no upper limit in the Bill gives the lie to the suggestion that it is an entirely altruistic measure designed to combat the perceived democratic deficit.
Mr Gareth Thomas: Although I agree with many of the principles of, and some of the concepts behind, the Bill, we must none the less take a detailed approach to the drafting of such legislation. My view is that the cumulative effect of the defects and the lacunae is that the Bill should not receive a Second Reading. Over and above that, if a fundamental measure of this sort is to be considered by the House,...
Mr Gareth Thomas: I am sorry that the hon. Gentleman adopted a churlish tone in dismissing what I would like to think is an objective contribution to this valuable debate. Incidentally, I congratulate the hon. Member for Blaby on raising this issue. The Government did not overstep the mark in Wales. The information that was delivered to each doorstep in Wales was objective. [Interruption.] The hon. Member for...
Mr Gareth Thomas: I entirely agree with the principle that the public should hear both sides of the argument, delivered loud and clear. I should like there to be upper limits on spending so that fairness exists and so that the voice of parties to the arguments can be heard in equal proportion. However, there are fundamental problems with the Bill, and I cannot accept it. Much has been made of the fact that...
Mr Gareth Thomas: If he will make a statement on his Department's role in regulating the offshore oil industry. [77046]
Mr Gareth Thomas: My hon. Friend will be aware of the widespread concern in north Wales about the activities of the offshore operator BHP following a series of oil spills into Liverpool bay. Is he entirely comfortable with the role that his Department plays as both sponsor of the oil and gas industry and its regulator? What assurances can he provide that his Department will adopt a co-ordinated and effective...
Mr Gareth Thomas: If he will make a statement on rural bus services. [78824]
