Lord Lyell of Markyate: My Lords, I am glad to follow my noble friend Lady Byford, and warmly to congratulate my noble friends Lady Wilcox-both on her speech and on her appointment to the Government-and Lord Henley. I am extremely grateful that, for medical reasons, I am speaking much earlier in the debate than my economic knowledge justifies. I apologise for the fact that, for sensible reasons, I shall not be...
Lord Lyell of Markyate: The noble Lord's remarks are pertinent, but I am sure he will instantly recognise that they cut both ways. If the necessary records are to some extent already being kept, it is not asking too much for the records that are required by the amendments to be kept. We as a country will hold our heads higher for being seen to have a system of control, even given what I entirely accept are the...
Lord Lyell of Markyate: My Lords, I should like very succinctly to support these amendments and the points that have been made. I start by endorsing the point of my noble friend Lord Goodlad that the noble Lord, Lord Bach, has always been unfailingly courteous. I am sure he will give this careful consideration and we shall listen most carefully to what he has to say. The dangers and corrosive effects of bribery have...
Lord Lyell of Markyate: I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Lester, who has raised an important point. It would almost certainly be quite unconscionable to prosecute in those circumstances. No doubt the Minister will reflect carefully on that.
Lord Lyell of Markyate: I am most grateful to the noble Lord for giving way. Since I have been mentioned, I will say that the noble Lord will remember that Mr Bruce George pointed out to us that there was an absolute tradition in these Joint Committees that they were always unanimous and that we must make it unanimous. Unanimous we made it. The unanimity really ought to be seen in that context.
Lord Lyell of Markyate: My Lords, I greatly respect the noble Lord, Lord Lester, who has enormous expertise in a number of fields, but I am afraid that he is entirely right when he anticipates that my opinion on this is diametrically opposed to his. Put quite succinctly, I can think of nobody who has been first law officer of the Crown-that is the position of the Attorney-General-who would put politics before their...
Lord Lyell of Markyate: My Lords, I agree with every speech that has been made, which shows one of the difficulties of the Bill. I strongly support my noble friend Lord Henley in putting forward this measure as a probing amendment. He is trying to establish more clarity. I do not like the term "facilitation payments" any more than do the noble Lords, Lord Borrie and Lord Williamson of Horton. We want to try to keep...
Lord Lyell of Markyate: Is this an area in which the Government propose to give guidance?
Lord Lyell of Markyate: I am most grateful to the Minister. I do have a quick question. He referred to case 1 and case 2, in which: "P offers, promises or gives a financial or other advantage to another". If P "offers" and "promises", he is obviously initiating or playing a very active part in the criminal conduct. But if it has been demanded of him in circumstances which in ordinary language, although not probably...
Lord Lyell of Markyate: I believe that duress these days requires some kind of physical duress and does not apply to the circumstances of this case. I take this from others whom I very much respect in the criminal law.
Lord Lyell of Markyate: We have much to deal with. I want to make only three short points. It is often said in academic discussions and by the Law Commission, for which I have great respect, that there have been inconsistent decisions on this. I have looked at all the cases and think that that is rather overstated. The DPP has told us in writing that this has caused no practical problems in the past 15 years and I...
Lord Lyell of Markyate: My Lords, I shall speak also to Amendment 2. The Minister will be pleased to know that Amendments 1 and 2 are probing amendments, because I have got them wrong from a technical point of view. However, my technical error helps to highlight a problem with, and flaw in, the Bill. I support the Bill and hope that it will find its way onto the statute book; but the flaw is that the serious...
Lord Lyell of Markyate: My Lords, I declare an interest as a member of the Constitution Committee and of the Joint Committee on the draft Bill and as a former law officer who was involved in a number of major bribery and corruption cases during my period in office. I strongly support the Bill in principle, but it is important that we scrutinise carefully its detailed provisions. These cover: first, the law of...
Lord Lyell of Markyate: My Lords, during the 10 years that I was a law officer-and I watched my noble and learned friend Lord Mayhew and Lord Havers before that-when acting as Attorney-General one was not acting as a member of the Government; one was acting as an independent law officer of the Crown. One would rather have been swallowed up by the earth than have allowed anything in the nature of an ordinary...
Lord Lyell of Markyate: My Lords, I wish to speak briefly on the Bribery Bill. I support it strongly in principle but it raises several problems and it is important that it is properly scrutinised by Parliament. I was a member, along with the noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, of the Joint Committee that carried out pre-legislative scrutiny between May and July. I congratulate the noble Viscount, Lord Colville of...
Lord Lyell of Markyate: My Lords, I am very happy to follow the noble Lord, Lord Rowlands, and agree with his last point. I thank my noble friend Lord Goodlad for his outstanding exposition of what our committee has been setting out and for the clear principles that he has laid down. I have an awful feeling that I am expressing pious hopes. We have been here before. Fast-track legislation in one form or another has...
Lord Lyell of Markyate: My Lords, I, too, come lately to this issue, but I have been listening to the argument. The argument for finding protection for the mother and child in these circumstances seems to be absolutely overwhelming and, if that can be evaded simply by the fact of registration, we need to do something about it. I agree with my noble friend that it is a challenge to the Government but, if they cannot...
Lord Lyell of Markyate: I am grateful.
Lord Lyell of Markyate: When the officer decides to seize something and says, "I am taking this", what does he do? Does he write down on a document that he has taken something and give that document to the person from whom he has taken it? How does it work in practice? One is a little worried because, while I well understand that this could be a useful power, it could also be an oppressive power. Whatever the hurry,...
Lord Lyell of Markyate: If the officer suspects that the assets may be dissipated but has no idea whether a prosecutor is going to make an application, is he entitled under this section to seize the assets?