Mr Alan Clark: I am anxious that the hon. Gentleman might not mention wages. Within the parameters of democratic planning, as he calls it, is he or is he not personally committed to the principle of totally free collective bargaining?
Mr Alan Clark: Is not this a rather large proportion just to disappear in lag? The hon. Gentleman says that the yield is £950 million but the amount by which the public sector borrowing requirement will be reduced is £700 million. What happens to the £250 million?
Mr Alan Clark: The right hon. Gentleman referred to the increases in defence spending projected by the previous Government. They timed them almost exactly to coincide with what in his earlier evidence he attributed to the preplanning of the Soviet Union, which accounts for its considerable increases now. Does that not show considerable prescience on the part of the previous Government?
Mr Alan Clark: By now, Mr. Deputy Speaker, you will have become accustomed to the habitual pattern of these defence debates. That pattern consists of a sparse attendance on the Government side—at any rate, above the Gangway—a plurality of Opposition Members who wish urgently to expose the scandalous manner in which the Government are treating the Services, and a number of banal, soothing and utterly...
Mr Alan Clark: There are certain elements in present prison expenditure of which I do not approve, but I did not know that it was included in the social wage. I was interested to read, in a definition of the social wage, that a number of factors which I would have included have been excluded. If I put the social wage at £800 a year per head, that is probably more of an underestimate than an exaggeration....
Mr Alan Clark: Surely the whole point of the defence review was that this scrutiny was applied in the most far-reaching, searching and thorough manner. What does the hon. Member want to reintroduce?
Mr Alan Clark: Surely the only criteria to be applied in these cases is the immediate security of the United Kingdom. Is it not the case that the refusal of arms sales to countries for doctrinaire reasons, regardless of what the United Nations may say, damages employment prospects for many of those in the industries concerned?
Mr Alan Clark: The hon. Lady said that the atmosphere in the prisons had improved because of these reforms. That may be the case. Is she saying that the crime figures—because this debate is about the prevention of crime—in Sweden and Holland are now lower than they were 10 years ago? If she is saying that, the source of her figures is at variance with all other international statistics on the subject.
Mr Alan Clark: 1 hardly know whether to speak at twice my normal speed or to cut my text in half, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Of all the subjects that we could be discussing, this is one of the greatest concerns of those whom we represent. I believe it is no exaggeration to say that the element of fear in our society has returned after an absence, as my hon. Friend the Member for Newcastle upon Tyne, North (Sir W....
Mr Alan Clark: On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. With no disrespect to yourself or to the hon. Member for Bristol, North-East (Mr. Palmer), do you consider it to be in order for the House to have to listen to generalised ramblings ranging many hundreds of miles from the hon. Gentleman's constituency when you have appealed to us for brevity on this subject?
Mr Alan Clark: My hon. Friend is carrying this argument a little further than some of us would wish. Does he contend that a foreign Power can say "If you do not buy our stuff, we shall not buy yours" and that it is likely to go on to say "If you do not buy our stuff, we shall not buy yours"? In other words, is he suggesting a total lack of reciprocity?
Mr Alan Clark: My hon. Friend the Member for Stretford (Mr. Churchill) made a number of serious charges regarding weapon deficiencies, failure to deliver, deferments and so on, and on the credit side we have had a number of speeches, of which that of the hon. Member for Hemsworth (Mr. Woodall) was characteristic, testifying to the morale of our Armed Forces. To that extent, the debate has followed a...
Mr Alan Clark: I know that they lost, but whoever won, it was small consolation to all those who suffered under the impact of the sophisticated delivery methods that are available now. The Russians are well equipped to deliver chemical and biological attack. The degree of protection for our civilian population against them is nil. In the last defence debate I remember making a number of deliberately...
Mr Alan Clark: Do not bother.
Mr Alan Clark: Is the Minister aware that it is an industry in which the labour demands are contracting? Employment figures at Rank Radio have dropped from 3,750 to 2,200. Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that where a diminishing number of jobs is available it is preferable that they should be devoted to building British goods rather than be subjected to the vagaries of management of component supply...
Mr Alan Clark: I trust that in the course of his address the Minister will be telling us exactly what evidence there was of public opinion to that effect and from what source he draws that statement.
Mr Alan Clark: On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. In the course of his address the Minister of State was interrupted on about five occasions and his brief, written by whatever joint consultative committee, had not anticipated any of the interventions. Therefore, the Minister was incapable of answering our questions. Will you indicate to the Minister who winds up the debate that he should consult his...
Mr Alan Clark: But is that answer not simply a cover-up for some private agreement between the Prime Minister and the right hon. Member for Roxburgh, Selkirk and Peebles (Mr. Steel)? Why should the obvious requirements of constitutional protocol be subordinated to a stay of execution for the Liberal Party?
Mr Alan Clark: asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what representations he has received concerning the working of the Children and Young Persons Act since the publication of the White Paper, Command Paper No. 6494.
Mr Alan Clark: Is not the key question whether the Government are to amend the 1969 Act in order to give juvenile courts the powers that they need to deal with hardened offenders?
