That was only one part of a very long friendship I had with Patrick. It started when he was chairman of the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee; it endured the variations leading to the Downing Street Declaration; it endured disagreements; it endured the situation when the new Bishop of Lincoln was introduced to this House and said of himself “I am the other Bishop of Lincoln”. For Patrick was wrapped in his faith, his church, his beliefs and love of this building. I am so glad tonight to have heard the frequent references to him. I believe, had he been spared, he would have been sitting at the end of that Bench, because Northern Ireland was very much engraved on his heart, rightly or wrongly. I will miss him, and I think, in its own way, Northern Ireland will as well.
Tonight, I believe, is, in its own way, a turning point. We have heard numerous references to disappointment and to failures of the document we are discussing, worries about its long-term effects and that much is needed to be done, even now, to make it acceptable and worth while. But tonight’s debate would not be taking place had it not been for one simple fact: Stormont is back—Stormont, with its shortcomings, its failures, yes, and its history. I speak as the grandson of a member of the former Lord Brookeborough’s Government all those years ago. With all its failures, with all its shortcomings, Northern Ireland has got its Stormont back.
Despite all we have listened to and the sincerity with which it has been expressed by those who have had to pay a great price politically for taking the stance that they have—let us acknowledge that—my belief tonight is that this place of so much history, back in operation, can represent a turning point in so much of the other problems that we know exist.
We can talk about Brexit, Europe, former Prime Ministers and Secretaries of State—we can go on all night, and at one stage tonight I felt that we might. We can go on listing the various shortcomings and giving thanks to those who have brought us to the point at which this local Administration or Government—call them what you will—will tackle local issues, but the fetters on allowing them to do so must be removed. That is up to the British Government.
We heard tonight about some of those difficulties, but I will concentrate in only a few words on one aspect of how I see the current situation. I think of our young people. I think of those at university and school, for whom much that we endured and came through is only a page in a history book. Not for them the endless funerals, the endless explosions and the endless suffering, but they are a part of us who are here and have come to this point in the history of Northern Ireland. Whether for the politicians or for those of us who, like me, knelt beside many bedsides and stood beside many graves, today could be a turning point.
The phrase I want to put on record is this: look forward. Learn from the mistakes and hurt of the past but, in God’s name, look ahead for the sake of the generation of Roman Catholic, Protestant and non-believing young people. Look ahead and give them the opportunities that history has bequeathed to them.
I have often said in debates on Northern Ireland in this House that I respect the efforts made by the noble Lord, Lord Caine, in having to deal, time and again, with the vicissitudes of Northern Ireland life. I am glad that tribute has been paid to him on several occasions tonight. I do so again, because we have been blessed, despite the shortcomings of policies that have annoyed us, by the personality and sincerity of Jonathan Caine. I want to voice that personally and on behalf of many others who are not here.
My experience of Northern Ireland has been to share the frustration of so many ordinary, decent people of all religious faiths or none that we seem to be blundering from one so-called failure or let-down to another. Now we believe in our hearts that there is the chance to move forward as part of the United Kingdom and, with our Scottish, Welsh and English colleagues, to build new understandings, sympathy and strength from our united front to face, in a very troubled world, the issues facing the next generation.
]]>It is to tell noble Lords that the word “victimhood” has become so used that we have lost sight of what or who a victim is. A victim exists with a picture on the mantelpiece. A victim exists with frequent visits to a hospital for treatment. A victim exists in the grandmother trying to explain to grandchildren what happened to members of that family. A victim is one who believed at one stage that the mother of Parliaments would understand their dilemma.
I have paid tribute on several occasions to the Minister for his patience in dealing with this issue, but I have to say this afternoon that he has not gone far enough. The feeling of sadness which overwhelms me is based on my many years of service to victims—to the men, women and children who were the real sufferers of our Troubles. I cannot get them out of my mind at this moment: the funerals, the addresses at funerals, the comfort in the hospital ward or beside a bedside. That is the whole background: the human side of “victim”. The human side is an ageing population who have been through the Troubles, and who now, by the passage of time, have looked with some hope to what we were going to pass in Parliament.
Way back, all those years ago, when Denis Bradley and I were asked to make the first attempt at dealing with the combined reconciliation and legacy issue, we set out on a journey which ends at this moment, in your Lordships’ House, so my feelings run very deep. Irrespective of the Opposition’s assurance that they will repeal this legislation one day if they are in power, and irrespective of the politics of it all, I speak of the broken hearts, the broken bodies and the irreconcilable issues that face ordinary decent people. I think of the members of the Royal Ulster Constabulary, the Ulster Defence Regiment, the civilians, caught up in this. I think of the work in hospital wards by dedicated doctors and nurses, and I can still hear in my mind the drumbeat of the procession to the grave. I say to the Government: surely, they have brought us not to a crossroads but to the edge of a cliff, and Northern Ireland is tottering at the edge.
]]>Yes, there have been attempts to bring the concept of victimhood into the legislation that is proposed, and yes, the Government can claim that they have made efforts, but, in God’s name, I ask your Lordships to consider the overall impetus of what changes have been made to try to recognise the needs of victims and their families, and of those who, in years to come, when they read what has been said, attempted and failed to be produced, will find it incredulous to understand that the Mother of Parliaments has ignored their crying.
The noble Lord, Lord Murphy, was kind enough to refer to the efforts I made on Report, and before that, to try to bring the sentiments he has expressed in his amendment before the House. I do not want to go over that again, except to say that, at the back of my mind as I listen to this final debate on these issues, I cannot come to any peace of mind that future generations will not condemn us for not recognising the human cost—yes, the human, emotional and spiritual cost—we are putting before the people of Northern Ireland. I cannot find words strong enough to express my personal hurt and ongoing dismay. The opportunity is being given to His Majesty’s Government, not to wreck the Bill but to make it better, stronger and, above all, more amenable to those who are the subject, or should be the subject, of our concern—namely, the victims.
There will be much discussion about the technicalities and what we are proposing to do, but I make this appeal to the House. Please hear the voices of those who have condemned what is happening and have made the simple human plea, “Please remember we have carried the hurt, pain and loss over the Troubles in Northern Ireland, and you have the opportunity now to do something about it”. Please do not miss the opportunity.
]]>On one occasion in Committee, I centred on the use of the word “reconciliation” in the title of the Bill. The speeches we have heard tonight come from the heart of people who have intimate knowledge of what they are talking about—people who have carried, and through their families have carried, scars over the years. For myself, there are numerous occasions upon which I have tried to bring comfort and reconciliation, in ordinary terms, to people. In the rawness of what we have heard tonight, this is really taking us now to the centre. We are not dealing with the niceties of this legislation. We are being reminded that the rawness of the suffering of ordinary people has brought us to this point.
I have no hesitation in saying that I have total dismay when I look at this legislation. So much could have been achieved. So much was expected, when we were told it was coming, and so little has been achieved, in what we have listened to and discussed. Now we are talking about how future generations will be told about our Troubles. We are told of the need to have an official history. My heavens, do we understand the first fact of what we are talking about when we refer to an “official history” of the Troubles? I venture to suggest it is an impossibility. The history of the Troubles is the photograph on the mantelpiece; the insertion on an anniversary; the plaque on a wall of the church, or a memorial window. The history of the Troubles is when a mother says, “Please, let me know the truth, before I die, of what happened”. And we turn around and produce ways of limiting inquiries, investigations, and questioning—not in the purely legal sense, but in the sense in which normal suffering people are crying out for answers. We have fallen so far short in this legislation of doing that.
I do not want to add to the agony that we have listened to this evening, but I would be failing all I have tried to stand for and what I have tried to achieve over my adult life if I did not say these things at this point. I say to the Minister that I have the utmost respect and admiration for the way in which he has tried to grapple over the months of discussions and analysis that have gone into our proceedings. I have nothing but admiration for him as a person, but I also recognise that he is trapped. He is trapped because the purpose of this legislation was to try to draw a line at last under the agony of Northern Ireland—to say at last, “That’s it; we can say it’s over. It will be wonderful; we’ve got this legislation. It deals with ABCD and it even proposes an official history of the Troubles of Northern Ireland”.
When I meet, as I still do, widows or children then, who are now adults, who will never see their father come home again—either because he wore a uniform or because he was in the wrong place at the wrong time as a civilian—whether they were Roman Catholic or Protestant, it does not matter; it is irrelevant, because the raw truth of the Troubles is that it was evil. It was the failure of society to grapple with its own past that allowed these things to happen.
I am not going to give a sermon but I will say that I have seen faith, courage and strength over the years which are truly remarkable, and I have seen the depths to which others have sunk. So, at this stage, as I wait to hear the response of the Minister once more to what he has had to listen to on the Floor of the House, my plea is simply this: let us be realistic, let us be honest and, when we talk about such things as the official history of all this agony, let us recognise what in fact we are asking for. The memory that I believe Northern Ireland society needs more than any other memory at the moment is the recognition of the human suffering of so many.
]]>Amendment 9 withdrawn.
Clause 4: Actions of the ICRIR: safeguards
]]>It is that morass of emotions which prompted me to table this amendment, because back home in Northern Ireland there is almost universal opposition to this Bill. The more you think about it and try to analyse it, you come up with a conclusion that, first, we differ on what reconciliation means; secondly, any attempt through legislation to define reconciliation is going to run into a multitude of difficulties; and, thirdly, the reconciliation in the Bill is, for many of us who have experience of the Troubles, nothing short of hypocrisy. My amendment seeks to recognise the need of victimhood not just to be recognised as a term but to be experienced in the process of reaching what the Bill is set out to aim for: reconciliation with a small R.
When we come to consider the role of the ICRIR, we should recognise that there are limits to what this legislation or any other legislation can define or describe. A lot is going to be left to the way in which this new organisation runs its affairs. The reason the noble Baroness, Lady Hoey, and I are suggesting the incorporation of the terms of Amendment 9 is not to oppose the Bill but to try to make it better, more acceptable. Is how we get to a definition of immunity or how we reach the process of immunity more important than recognising victimhood? Is it more important than recognising that people have their memories, their hurts and their scars? We have said that so often in this House, and we have been reminded tonight by the noble Lord, Lord Murphy, and others of the significance of today as a day of remembrance.
I will be as brief as I can in moving this amendment. Once again, I thank the Minister for his compassion, as well as his listening ability. I ask him to accept that this is not an attempt to derail what he has said already—not least what he has said tonight—but an attempt to make it more acceptable to that vast community which thinks at this moment that what we are talking about has no relevancy to their situation.
I ask again, which is more important in the process of reconciliation: to create a technical process for immunity or to recognise by involvement the needs of suffering people who are carrying in their hearts and minds the scars of our Troubles? In my opinion and, I think, that of many of my colleagues who, like me, have given so much of their lives to this process, it has to be stated for the record that the immunity process has to climb over the reality of victimhood. Until it does so, it will be very unsatisfactory as an attempt at reconciliation. I beg to move Amendment 9.
]]>At this juncture in our debates, we are addressing for technical reasons—which I accept—and for reasons of jurisprudence and legality, what is, I believe, the greatest failure of this proposed legislation. It is proposed that victims and survivors will be denied the last jurisprudential opportunity to gain some answer to their doubts, worries and concerns, and above all their search for justice.
I am very glad that the noble Lord, Lord Dodds, recently referred to the death of my long-term colleague and friend, who began, as I did, to study law at Queen’s, all those years ago, and who ended up as Lord Chief Justice of Northern Ireland. For reasons that must be obvious, I personally know something of the strain that he encountered during the Troubles, and the honesty, integrity and decency of Bob Carswell needs no defence from me. I pay tribute today to a man who often sat beside me on these Benches of latter years.
I cannot speak too strongly of the feeling of so many people who have encountered grief, loss and sorrow during the Troubles when they view the proposals of this Bill, and in particular the amendments and the area that surrounds them that we are looking at currently. They are to be denied the possibility of answers to their questions, and denied the justice that they feel is not just a legal necessity but a legal obligation. They are to be denied the possibility of having their questions answered and doubts removed. Now we see what is proposed in our legislation. To say that it is adding salt to the wounds is too little; it will be devastating in its effect. We must put on record that this Committee recognises, beyond the technicalities that our legal friends are now explaining to us, the human side of what is happening and what is proposed.
Many tributes have been paid to the Minister, and I add my name to them, for I do not know how he has had the patience to listen to so many approaches. But I say to him that, on this occasion, he must recognise above all else that, in guiding us through this legislation, he is defending something that we who live and work there, and who have had our being in Northern Ireland, find extremely hard to accept. That must be said plainly. Above all else, if this Committee does not hear those voices and those claims, we are failing to do the duty that we are obliged to fulfil.
The last thing I will say at this stage is simply this. Whatever the future of this proposed legislation, whatever the future of the peace process in Northern Ireland, and whatever the future for the new generation coming up who will read in the history books what so many of us have lived through—whatever the answers to those questions are—what remains fundamental is justice in its widest human sense. For that reason, I add my support to these amendments.
]]>I have devoted a great deal—in fact, most—of my adult life to working for reconciliation. In the process, I have met many young people sucked into the paramilitary machine, not always realising what was happening to them—that was the human tragedy of it—but living to regret that they had allowed this to happen in their lives. I see these amendments in terms of those young people. I have seen what some of them have managed to do with their lives You might perhaps call it reconciliation; I prefer to call it a reawakening of conscience and of isolation from paramilitary activity. The success stories that I have seen have been from those who recognised that there was not an easy path to follow but that it was worth following. Those are the young people who these amendments are mostly targeted at.
I have seen those who have paid the price for what they have done. They have served their time and have managed to build some sort of decency to their lives. But I have also seen some who are extremely subtle in the way in which they have embarked on a continuing career that encourages others to be involved in criminal activity. I put it on the record, and ask the Minister to consider in his response, that we have to take the broadest possible attitude to the way in which society deals with what we call reconciliation, particularly in Northern Ireland terms. It is easy to write about it, to make money out of it and to establish it in programmes, the media and published work—you name it, it is there. This group of amendments reminds the Committee that we have to be realistic and to recognise that these things do happen and that there is no way in which any society moving forward can grant immunity to those who constantly find ways of escaping the net that the noble Lord, Lord Dodds, has spoken of.
Lastly, in supporting these amendments, I urge the Minister to recognise that there is a reality about them that perhaps was not captured by the title of this legislation. The reality is that reconciliation can be judged only by your actions, your way of life and the purpose to which you put it, rather than just saying it with your lips.
]]>I am sitting here listening to so much that has been said, and I am hearing other voices. I am hearing those countless voices I have ministered to over the years as a priest, a bishop and then an archbishop. I have listened to the service families, those who came out of their homes and, most importantly of all, those who, when off duty, came back into their homes in the very areas where they would be in danger. Can noble Lords imagine what that was like—the constancy of anxiety and thinking about the children? One child in particular, when I had performed the burial of her father who had been slaughtered by terrorism, tugged on my robes to draw my attention and looked up at me. As I looked down at this child—I can still see her—she said, “What have you done with Daddy?” That is the sort of human reaction we are talking about this evening. We are not talking about facts—“victims” and “survivors”. We are talking about ordinary, decent people caught up in a situation that I wonder whether we will all ever understand—its causes and consequences.
I have said publicly in this House, twice at least, that I feel so strongly for the position that the Minister is in and why he has tried to do so much to feel the tenor of what we are saying to him about this legislation. I plead with him to go beyond “victims” and “survivors” to the people who are actually asking this House and the other House to treat them as human beings. That is what they are, and they are at the centre of the need in relation to which this legislation is lacking.
]]>The noble Lord, Lord Browne, is talking about one of the most sensitive parts of this proposed Bill: the appointment of this commission. I cannot, with my experience of Northern Ireland, imagine any issue that is going to be more productive of comment for and against this legislation than the question of the appointment of this commission. The noble Lord, Lord Dodds, has already reminded us of that significant period of this process. I welcome the opportunity given to the Minister to tell us a little more about what the thinking is about the structure of this commission. It is that point where many of us would have concerns about the involvement of the Secretary of State in this process.
Time and again in my correspondence, the messages I receive constantly underline the fact that victims and survivors are not at the centre of this legislation. This opportunity is given to us again to place on the record the needs of that part of our community. It is not just about those in the security forces or victims of either side in the conflict; it is about the mental instability that has been caused to another generation inheriting the deep thought and the deep suffering of the victims of the Troubles in Northern Ireland.
]]>Secondly, I support what the noble Baroness said in moving her amendment in terms of the difficulty of the construction we will eventually give to this commission. I know from experience—as do many Members of your Lordships’ House—how difficult it is when distinct definitions are not spelled out and people have their own approach to what they think was defined or underlined. If this part of the Bill is to proceed, I suggest to the Minister that a closer examination is needed of the definition of the commission’s role—how it is to be described, how it will relate to jurisprudence and how it will relate to the way in which individual cases are presented. There is, I believe, real opportunity for this concept of the new commission to proceed, and proceed in a positive way, but I still think that a great deal of preliminary thought is necessary at this stage.
]]>The failure of this legislation to have at its heart the needs of survivors and victims and their families and loved ones is a total disaster. Because of the way this new commission is proposed to operate, many people in Northern Ireland are going to be denied justice and denied the opportunity to be heard. I speak from many years’ experience of pastoral service to the people of Northern Ireland when I say that this is nothing less than a tragedy.
It is for those reasons that so many of us have a lot of sympathy with what the noble Baroness has said. No one knows better than she does, from her public service, what the feelings of opposition amount to in Northern Ireland at the present time. I appeal to those noble Lords who have serious concerns, who do not live in Northern Ireland, who have not experienced what we have come through; I appeal to them to see the opposition to this legislation as a matter of right and wrong, for it is, I believe, verging on a moral issue.
]]>I have listened carefully to each speech tonight and have tried to put together the jigsaw of people referred to in my mind. Then I looked around the Chamber and saw many of my fellow Peers who do not live in Northern Ireland but who have taken the trouble to identify with our lives and experiences. I thank them for that. Then I looked across and saw the noble Lords, Lord Hain and Lord Murphy, and the noble Baroness, Lady Smith. In each case, memories flooded back of working with those with responsibilities for the government of Northern Ireland, as they had, and I am grateful.
At this moment, however, I think most of the houses in which I have stood, the bedsides besides which I have knelt and the families, particularly the young people, whose futures were devastated by the Troubles. So I make no apology for being personal in what I will say. It will not take long, for virtually everything that I feel needs to be said about this Bill has been said, and by people of such expertise as the noble and learned Lord, Lord Judge—lawyers, people with human emotions, politicians from Northern Ireland and people who have endured some of the emotional stress of these past years.
When I heard the title the Government had chosen for this Bill, I was encouraged, as “reconciliation” has now found some structure in legislation. Then I read the proposed Bill and began to ask whether all the years of work and in seeking agreement were useless. Were all the tears shed and pains shared useless and unproductive? I could find nothing in the Bill that would increase the human expectation or realisation of true reconciliation; rather, it will add to the hurt and uncertainty, and to the dismal prospect of that hurt being endured for generation after generation.
My next reaction was to scrap the Bill totally, as it will not serve any useful purpose. I have sympathy with Members of the House who said, “Start from scratch. Start again”. But my memory goes back to Denis Bradley and me, and the Consultative Group on the Past, which made the first attempt to deal with legacy. We made many mistakes. We learned as we went along and society made its judgment, because we were at the wrong time. Society was not ready to look at its legacy. But, as I listen and read what has happened since, how many aspects of that report continue to surface? Put different labels on it, use different words, but the thoughts are there. There must have been something that was worth saying.
That led me to my second conclusion: we do not need to scrap the Bill totally but, as it goes through this House, must give it the sort of scrutiny that leaves no stone unturned so that we get to what is needed for the Northern Ireland of the future. That will mean questions about the work of the proposed commission, about its control and the control of it. It will raise questions about whether Westminster will be too involved and exercise too much control that could be exercised in Northern Ireland. It will ask questions of jurisprudence, which has not been mentioned tonight. My memory goes back to many years ago, when I tried to teach jurisprudence to reluctant law students. If there is one memory I have of those days, it is the knowledge that there is a sense in which the definition of justice is what must emerge at the end of any process dealing with legacy, wherever it is. I honestly believe that the Bill in its present form is totally guilty of running a horse—and, dare I say it, a hearse—through the nature of justice.
I believe that we must look at the Bill and not totally scrap it but take it to pieces and see which Lego bricks should remain. Many things have been said tonight about ways in which we can improve our approach. To conclude these brief remarks, I believe that the new legislation we seek must be centred on the victims, and on the suffering of the people who suffered most in our Troubles—above all recognising their claim to justice and to a better future—and on a generation of young people who deserve far more than my generation has been able to offer them. If we cannot do that, we need to move away from looking at the disaster on the decks of the “Titanic” and have a look at what caused the iceberg.
Finally, I say this to the Minister. I think we are getting a sense tonight of what he personally has gone through and is going through regarding this Bill. He deserves genuine tribute for his honesty in his introduction to this session. I say this to him: he knows Northern Ireland; he knows what we are like; and he knows where we have come from. I beg of him, in the face of his colleagues and those who wish this Bill to continue, to pause, and have the courage to say some of the things that he has heard said tonight, and realise that there is a future but it is a different sort of Bill.
]]>What we are debating today is, on the surface of it, the right thing to do. We are moving humanity forward; we are giving people the opportunity to die with a new sense of dignity. How often in the dark hours sitting beside a bedside have I thought of those issues and have prayed that a person’s suffering would cease—that somehow, in my faith, the Almighty would receive them out of their pain.
But when I look at the Bill, so wonderfully introduced and supported by many who have thought deeply about it, I question whether the safeguards have been sufficiently analysed. A young doctor of my acquaintance said to me the other day, “Please, please, please get greater safeguards written into this legislation”—not that he was against some progress in healing the desperate burdens that have been described this afternoon. No, he wants to move forward, but he feels the vulnerability of so much that sounds well on the surface but, when looked at closely, does not give him safety or a guarantee. For that reason, I find it hard to support this legislation.
]]>In the Speech from the Throne a few days ago there were two references to Northern Ireland:
“Measures will be brought forward to strengthen devolved Government in Northern Ireland”—
and then comes the rather telling phrase—
“and address the legacy of the past.”
The fact that those two sentiments are contained in close proximity is something of which I believe I have an obligation to remind your Lordships’ House in today’s debate.
First, on “strengthening devolution”, when devolution became a reality it was greeted throughout the western world as a wonderful experiment: a wonderful example of what was possible, which might one day be repeated across the globe in various segments. Devolution grew. It matured in many aspects but it taught us many lessons in others. Northern Ireland is part of that story, because there are good and bad aspects.
On the positive aspects, devolution for Northern Ireland has given a breath of fresh air to a new generation who can feel that we have an identity which will not be taken away by events further afield. It has given to Northern Ireland the stability to say that it is part of a bigger union. However, there have been detrimental effects. I have to say, with some degree of regret, that there is a widespread feeling in Northern Ireland at the moment that central government is somewhat removed from the realities of devolution. It is somehow removed because the 24-hour visit by statesmen from London when we are in need is so quickly forgotten, not in Northern Ireland but in London. There is a growing apprehension that the real needs of the small Province in the north-east corner of Ireland are not being acutely felt, despite what we welcome in terms of outreach to meet those needs. Therefore my plea is that, when we are looking at developing and increasing the power of devolution in Northern Ireland, Her Majesty’s Government take seriously the fact that there is much more to that relationship than simply structures. There has to be trust, collegiality and understanding.
On the second phrase, that the Government will attempt to address the legacy question, I speak with genuine personal feeling on this subject for many reasons. First, my career as the archbishop took place in the midst of the Troubles; I will take to my grave my memories. But secondly, I was part of the team which made the first attempt to address the legacy all those years ago. Together with Denis Bradley, we tried to give a formula which would in fact address the legacy. Since then, I have lost count of the number of times that institutions, Ministers and indeed Governments have come to say, “This is the answer to your legacy”, and yet, a few days ago, a coroner announced that 10 people shot during the Troubles were innocent—10 lives. They were from one section of the community, but 10 people who will never be forgotten by their family and relatives. To that I would add the numerous lives that have been lost on both sides, and I simply make this plea: no matter what the plans may be to address legacy—we have not had them disclosed—please be careful. Please think before you act, in particular about suggestions that would in fact push us further back rather than giving us hope to move forward.
]]>I refer to a remark made by the noble Lord, Lord Fox, on a previous occasion in debate on this Bill. He said that trade was about people—a simplistic remark that it would be very easy to erase from the memory. However, in the light of what we who support this amendment today want to stress to the House, that remark stresses something of great importance. Over the years, I have at some length spoken to your Lordships of the sensitivities in Northern Ireland based on our history, and this is not the occasion to do so again—except to say that nothing in this Bill can be dismissed as having no historical context, because trade is about people. I speak after years of experience of dealing with those problems, and dealing with them on a practical level, as the Anglican primate of the whole of the island.
The wording of Amendment 26 attempts to answer what underlines a great deal of the trouble and worries in Northern Ireland at this moment. Those worries can best be summed up as uncertainty, because uncertainty brings with it stress. The business community is faced with Brexit, with the unknown future lying before us all and with the questions of our relationship with the rest of the United Kingdom which the noble Lord, Lord Hain, painted so clearly just now. All that uncertainty combines to figure dangers for the trade and business prosperity of a part of the United Kingdom—namely, Northern Ireland. If the sense of this amendment is not included on the pages of the statute book, in the light of what else is said about the Trade Bill, its absence will make even more visible the uncertainty and the stress for our local community.
We have spent a long time in this House looking at this Bill. We have had to face its terms not only in what is before us on the Marshalled List but in what is happening in the situation around us, far from Westminster. The plea that I make, coming as I do from Northern Ireland, is that your Lordships realise that we are not playing with words. We are not trying to overdramatise for historical reasons the need for this amendment. We are saying that we represent genuine uncertainty and doubt and, as one businessman put it to me at the weekend, the fear of the uncertainty that lies ahead of us as part of the UK.
I stress one other aspect. One lesson that the debates on this Bill has produced has been a new recognition of the doubts as well as the achievements of the devolved settlement. We have learned a great deal about that relationship and that settlement; we have learned how good it can be, how welcome it can be and how strong it can be for the whole United Kingdom, but we have also recognised its limitations.
Amendment 26, so ably produced by the noble Lord, Lord Hain, shows the need to be clear in those areas of uncertainty where part of the United Kingdom finds itself not as a future border with the European Union, but the border today between two Administrations. I hope the Minister will realise, when he comes to reply, that one of the shortcomings of the way in which we work as a House under our present conditions is that there are often things that cannot be examined in detail. This is very true of matters of trade but even more true of matters to do with people, and because people are a part of trade, I support Amendment 26.
]]>