“(1) The Armed Forces Act 2006 is amended as follows.

(2) Section 343A, after subsection (5) insert—

‘(5A) An armed forces covenant report must include—

(a) a comparison of the terms and conditions of service for service people with other public sector employees, and

(b) an assessment as to whether service personnel face no financial disadvantage through their employment.’”—

This new clause will ensure that the principles of the Armed Forces Covenant extend to matters relating to the financial disadvantages subjected to UK serving personnel and veterans, as a result of their time in the Armed Forces.

Brought up, and read the First time.

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

New clause 10—Due regard given to service personnel—

“(1) When preparing policy, public bodies must have regard to those matters to which the Secretary of State is to have regard in preparing an Armed Force covenant report, under section 359A (2A) of the Armed Forces Act 2006.

(2) In preparing policy, public bodies must consider whether the making of special provision for service people or descriptions of service people would be justified.

(3) The Secretary of State must lay 12 months following the day on which this Act is passed, and every 12 months thereafter,

This new clause will ensure the Government fully enshrines the Armed Forces Covenant into law. It clarifies the duty to have ‘due regard’, meaning public bodies and ministers must consider the same issues that the Secretary of State does in preparing the Armed Forces Covenant Annual Report.

New clause 14—Statistics to be reported as part of the Armed Forces Covenant Report—

“(1) The Armed Forces 2006 is amended as follows.

(2) Section 343A, after subsection (5) insert—

‘(5A) An armed forces covenant report must include the number of—

(a) veterans (or families of veterans) who have contacted the Office of Veteran Affairs or Veterans UK each year and an overview of the most commonly mentioned reasons for contact;

(b) veterans who have applied for a Veterans Railcard;

(c) veterans who have applied to the Civil Service Interviews Scheme, and the proportion of these who have been successful in a job offer;

(d) veterans in the street homeless population; and

(e) veterans who have died by suicide.’”

This new clause, with NC15, will improve the Government’s collection and reporting of data on veterans in the Armed Forces Covenant Annual Report. It also places a duty on all public services to establish whether all new users are a veteran.

First, may I put on the record for the Minister that my constituency is not Darlington North but North Durham, which I am proud to have represented for the past 20 years? Can I also just give him some advice? If he actually read around the subject and understood it, rather than just reading out the civil service brief, he might be able to think on his feet and answer the points. It is called preparation for Bill Committees—I am not sure he does a great deal of that.

New clause 8 gets to an issue that was raised earlier by the hon. Member for Glasgow North West—the ability of the armed forces to make representations on their terms and conditions of employment. That ability is limited, and the first issue that I will raise is pay. We have already heard about their limited ability to raise issues in other areas, but it is down to the Armed Forces Pay Review Body to look at the way in which the armed forces are remunerated. I accept that it is not a straightforward situation, due to not just the different ranks and responsibilities, but the complexity. The three services are not always easy to understand.

Because the armed forces cannot make representations on their own pay, they rely on the Armed Forces Pay Review Body to do that intensive work. Anyone who cares to read its annual reports—sadly, I do—knows that it does an excellent job of trying to gauge opinion across the armed forces, and it has comparators with other sectors. I accept there is not a complete read-across to other, civilian areas, because, for example, there are issues around abatements of pensions and other things, but the Armed Forces Pay Review Body is expert in being able to do these things.

There was not a problem until 2010, because it was assumed that no Government would not accept the pay review body’s recommendations. We are talking about standing up for our armed forces, and I was proud to be a member of a Government who accepted those recommendations in full. However, that changed in 2010, when the coalition Government, and then the current Conservative Government, did not accept the pay recommendations. The MOD might accept them, but they are not implemented in terms of the Treasury recommendations. In 2010, an Army private was paid £17,014 per annum. Average inflation has been 2.7% over the period since then, which means a private should receive £22,338 today. However, a private earns only £20,400 today—an almost 10% cut in privates’ pay since 2010.

On Second Reading, Fay Jones said that the Tory party is the party that stands up for the armed forces. I can imagine the hue and cry there would have been if I had recommended that armed forces pay should be cut in such a way when I was a Minister in the Ministry of Defence. This just shows how hollow those words are. One of the important things about a pay review body is the fact that it is independent. Clearly, in 2013, Downing Street did not like the recommendations from Alasdair Smith, who was then the chairman and whom the Government failed to reappoint, because he wanted to go beyond the 1% basic rise that had been recommended.

The Government cannot pick and choose when service personnel are treated as public servants. The wage cap in the public sector was argued for on the basis of austerity, but I would argue that members of the armed forces should be treated separately, because they have an independent body that looks at their pay. As has been raised already, they do not have the ability to make recommendations or to take any actions.

New Clause 8 is designed to ensure that the covenant report includes comparisons with the terms and conditions of service in the public sector. Many of those may well be issues that are raised by the pay review body, but I would certainly like to see that emphasis, so that we can judge what the Government are doing.

As I say, we have had a coalition Government and a Conservative Government who have cut armed forces pay, but they also made people compulsorily redundant in the early 2010s. Again, if I had recommended that as Minister for the Armed Forces, the newspaper headlines and Conservative Members would have said that it was an outrage. However, it has gone through very quietly, like the issue of armed forces pay. New clause 8 would ensure that armed forces pay is on the agenda and we have the ability to ensure that Governments of whichever colour do not renege—which this Government have done, and which the coalition Government did—on armed forces pay.

Before I call Stephen Morgan to speak to new clause 10 and then Sharon Hodgson to speak to new clause 14, I remind Members that this sitting is being broadcast live. Members should therefore refrain from arguing in public. I remind everyone that they must formally intervene and then stay on mute when they are not speaking.

New clause 10, taken together with amendments 3 to 6, is designed to ensure that the Government fulfil their commitment to fully enshrine the armed forces covenant into law, and that it is delivered to all service personnel, veterans and their families. As I previously noted on amendments 3 to 6, the Bill as drafted attempts to absolve central Government of the responsibility to deliver the armed forces covenant. Instead, it places the burden on cash-strapped local authorities and other public bodies, and provides no new resources with which to deliver it.

The new clause would strengthen the duty of due regard. It would build a conscious commitment to all aspects of the covenant into the framework of Government public policy, and mandate Ministers to provide evidence of where they have done that. Serving personnel, veterans and their families access a great range of services from across Government Departments, local authorities and other public bodies, but the Royal British Legion has pointed out that policy areas in which members of the armed forces community experience difficulty are often ultimately the responsibility of national Government or based on national guidance provided to other delivery partners.

Placing the burden entirely on local authorities and other public bodies conveniently leaves out the responsibilities that the Government have to veterans in areas such as pensions, compensation and even social care, where central Government set the policy that is delivered by local authorities. It also means that serving personnel who rely on the MOD for most services are not currently included in scope. At the moment, the Bill does little to reinforce and support the welfare of those who are actively serving. After a year in which they have been bolstering our frontline efforts to tackle coronavirus, in addition to carrying out continued deployments overseas, nothing is more illustrative of the low ambition with which the Government have approached the Bill.

The operation of the new clause is similar to that of the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015, which ensures that relevant new legislation and guidance pass a climate change litmus test. Why would we not require the same standards for our armed forces communities? The covenant contains laudable commitments that should be delivered to those who have served our country with courage and distinction, but for many in service communities it is a well-meaning but nebulous document that cannot be relied on to make any tangible difference to their day-to-day lives, as we have heard from witnesses and seen in successive reports. A practical example is the debate around priority care for veterans. That is guaranteed by the covenant, but as Cobseo pointed out in the armed forces covenant annual report, it is implemented in an inconsistent manner, and its ambiguity can cause problems on the ground.

We know that the statutory guidance that will give meaning to the legislation will not be published in full until Royal Assent. That means that politicians, service charities and, most importantly, service communities will not understand whether the Bill actually delivers until it has passed. Why are the Government happy to take that chance? The new clause is an antidote to the ambiguity and fragmentation of the current system of covenant delivery. It consciously builds the concept of “no disadvantage” into policy making across public bodies and offers an opportunity to give actionable meaning to the laudable but sometimes ambiguous commitments in the covenant. Taken together withother proposals, it will clarify the promises in the covenant and ensure that all aspects are deliverable in practice for service personnel, veterans and their families.

It is a pleasure to follow my right hon. Friend the Member for North Durham and my hon. Friend the Member for Portsmouth South. I rise to speak to new clause 14, which calls on the Government to record and then report the following: first, the number of veterans, or families of veterans, who have contacted the Office for Veterans’ Affairs or Veterans UK each year, with an overview of the most commonly mentioned reasons for that contact; secondly, the number of veterans who have applied for a veterans’ railcard, as well as the number of veterans who have applied to the civil service interview scheme, and the proportion who have been successful; thirdly, the number of veterans in the street homeless population; and, finally, the number of veterans who have died by suicide.

I know that the Minister is working on all those areas, but the reality is that without the data we cannot establish what more may need to be done. He is right to celebrate having the veterans’ question on the census for the first time. I look forward to seeing the data published as a result of that. He also often celebrates the veterans’ railcard and the civil service interview scheme, which is why we are keen to hear how they are doing. I have tabled some written questions to find out, and it looks like both are going really well.

New clause 14 relates to my previous speech on public services asking if someone is a veteran or reservist. Such a measure would improve services and help government—at a local and national level—to make policies to address shortfalls. For example, in July to September 2020, 460 households were reported as having additional support needs due to a member having served in the armed forces. But not all local authorities ask, or consistently record and report this data.

We have only a small insight into the number of veterans represented in the street homeless population in London. In 2019-20, 376 people seen sleeping rough in London were recorded as having served in the armed forces; 129 of them were UK nationals. That is an increase from 2018-19, when 322 people seen sleeping rough in London—115 of whom were UK nationals—were recorded as having served in the armed forces. But, again, not all rough sleepers are assessed on their armed forces history, so we cannot say for certain whether these trends reflect what is happening in the whole population of rough sleepers.

Similarly, we do not know the scale of veterans’ suicide. I know that this is a complex issue that the MOD is working on, alongside a further study by Professor Nav Kapur from the University of Manchester, who is looking into the causes of veteran suicide. However, if coroners were mandated to record the service history of the person who has died by suicide, we would be a step closer to understanding the scale of veteran suicide and whether being a veteran played any part in a suicide, as it is not always a contributing factor. New clause 14 seeks to measure the scale of the issue so that we can understand and address it.

I hope that the Minister will see merit in recording and reporting this data to better improve our understanding of veterans’ lives and the challenges they face, and therefore to improve the Government’s response to the issue.

These new clauses, as I understand them, are linked by a desire to broaden the kinds of issues that the Government are required to report on annually to Parliament in respect of delivery against the armed forces covenant. I will take each new clause in turn and explain why the Government do not believe that proposed additional reporting obligations will work.

New clause 8 would require the armed forces covenant annual report to include comparative data on the terms and conditions of service personnel versus other public sector employees, and an assessment of whether service personnel experience financial disadvantage because of their service. I assure the right hon. Member for North Durham that the Government are committed to ensuring that the terms and conditions of service personnel remain attractive and competitive, and that service personnel do not face financial disadvantage.

The overall remuneration package for service personnel ensures that they are compensated for the additional costs of service life. Whether based in the UK or deployed overseas, service personnel receive additional pay enhancements that recognise the unique challenges of service life, and they are further rewarded with annual pay increments, recognising their development and commitment. On top of that, service personnel continue to be rewarded with one of the most generous non-contributory pension schemes in the country.

I recognise the importance of ensuring that terms and conditions are reviewed regularly. That is the role of the independent Armed Forces Pay Review Body, which we have talked about already this morning. It provides advice to the Prime Minister and the Secretary of State on the remuneration of service personnel, and its remit compels it to consider the need for armed forces pay to be broadly comparable with pay levels in civilian life. The Armed Forces Pay Review Body already submits an annual report on its work to the Prime Minister and the Secretary of State, who then present it to Parliament for the Government to respond to. The recommendations of the AFPRB have always been accepted by the Government. We therefore consider that the additional reporting requirement proposed by this new clause would not provide to Parliament any information that is not already received in the annual AFPRB report.

I move on to new clause 10. I interpret subsections (1) and (2) as requiring all public bodies, particularly Government Departments and Ministers, to have due regard to the principle of the covenant when making policy. If my interpretation is correct, I refer my right hon. Friend the Member for North Durham to answers that I have given elsewhere about extending the scope of the duty to include central Government Departments. Broadly, central Government are already held to account in our delivery of the covenant by the statutory requirement to report annually to Parliament on progress against the covenant. I reiterate that this will remain a legal obligation.

Clause 3 would appear to require the Secretary of State to report annually to Parliament on how other Government Departments have demonstrated due regard to the covenant principles when making policy. Quite apart from the fact that that would impose a disproportionately large administrative burden on Departments—especially the MOD in having to write such a report—the Government consider that the salient information required by Parliament to monitor Government Departments’ progress in delivering the covenant is already contained in the covenant annual report.

Finally, new clause 14 would require the covenant annual report to include new statistics on veterans in several areas, including the number of veterans contacting the Office for Veterans’ Affairs and Veterans UK each year. The Government absolutely recognise the importance of measuring the progress we are making in delivering support for veterans and remain committed to continuous improvement. In terms of both the number and quality of the metrics reported against annually in the covenant report to Parliament, the OVA is working across Government to develop a framework of measures to track progress against the outcomes set out in the strategy for our veterans. We already intend to publish an annual veterans report, setting out our progress in delivering against our objectives. We anticipate that that would also include statistics reflecting the key initiatives, such as the veterans railcard, which my hon. Friend the Member for Washington and Sunderland West mentioned.

In the light of our plans for an annual veterans report, the Government are of the view that these additional reporting requirements for the covenant and the report are not necessary. I hope that, following these assurances, Members will agree to withdraw, or will not press, their new clauses.

The Minister says that the Government are committed to armed forces personnel facing no financial disadvantage, but they will if the Government accept the Armed Forces Pay Review Body’s recommendations but do not actually implement them. It is important to notice that although the armed forces do have good pensions—they are an outlier in that respect—armed forces personnel do pay for them, because those pensions are taken into account when service pay is calculated by the Armed Forces Pay Review Body.

I would accept what the Minister says, and we would have no problem with this, if we had a Government who implemented the Armed Forces Pay Review Body’s recommendations, but we have not; since 2010 we have had a Government who have not implemented those. I will therefore press the new clause to a vote, because I think an extra level of reporting is needed to show that armed forces personnel are not being disadvantaged in this case by a Government who do not implement the recommendations of the Armed Forces Pay Review Body.

Question put, That the clause be read a Second time.

The Committee divided: Ayes 7, Noes 8.

Question accordingly negatived.