I think that the record will show that I said trustees or managers, but, for brevity, let us say trustees. Clearly, managers could manage CDC schemes, as we discussed earlier. A Government amendment sets out more precisely the duties of managers with respect to the interests of members. I am simply trying to avoid saying trustees or managers all the time; there is no great Freudian or other significance in that.
To clarify the point about actuaries, they have a key role to play because they are independent. They are not members of the scheme or employers; they are giving independent expert advice. We have powers to require actuaries to meet specified requirements and hold specified qualifications under clause 27. I accept that actuaries, like politicians, do not always get things right, but they do have a crucial role to play.