– in a Public Bill Committee at on 29 January 2013.
In welcoming you all to the Committee, may I make a couple of brief introductory remarks?
I will apply the same rules and procedures in this Committee as are applied in the Chamber, and therefore unless we suffer from extreme discomfort, for example, the code of dress will be identical to that which we would like in the Chamber. The same applies to the rules on eating, drinking and all those kinds of things. Mobile phones should be turned off or switched to silent. I will apply all those rules as strictly here as Mr Speaker would in the Chamber, if that is agreeable to the Committee.
I should tell members that, generally speaking, my fellow Chair and I will not call starred amendments, which have not been tabled with enough notice. The required notice period in Public Bill Committees is three working days, which means that amendments for consideration on a Thursday should be tabled by the rise of the House on the Monday, and amendments for the following Tuesday should be tabled by the rise of the House on the Thursday.
For the benefit of those who have not sat on Public Bill Committees before, I should say that the selection list for today’s sitting, and for each day, is available in the room, on the table at the back. The list shows how amendments are selected for debate and how they have been grouped together for debate. Amendments that are grouped together are generally about the same or a similar issue, and the Chairman will make sure that the grouping is satisfactory, under close advice from our learned friends the Clerks. Obviously, if people were not happy with the grouping at any stage, perhaps they would let the Chairman know that they thought it somehow inappropriate. By and large, however, the grouping tends to be done eminently professionally.
The member who puts his name on a leading amendment in a group is called first, and other members of the Committee are then free to catch my eye if they wish to speak to the group. Any member may speak more than once on each group of amendments if they wish. At the end of the debate on a particular group of amendments, I call the member who moved the leading amendment again; before they sit down, they have to indicate whether they wish that amendment to go to a Division or whether they intend to seek leave of the Committee to withdraw it. If any other member who is leading on any other amendment in that group wishes for there to be a vote on it, they must let me know that that is the case, otherwise I will not know. I work on the assumption that the Government want all Government amendments to go to a decision.
You probably all know this perfectly well, but decisions on amendments are not called in the order in which they are debated, but in the order in which they appear on the amendment paper. That often confuses people.
I will use my discretion to decide whether we should have stand part debates on each clause. By and large, the rule that I apply is that where there has been a reasonable debate on the main substance of the clause, we will not have a stand part debate, but where there has been insufficient debate for one reason or another, I will allow a stand part debate, if any member asked for that. I hope that clears things up and is helpful to you all.
Before we move on to line-by-line consideration of the Bill, there are two or three procedural matters that we must deal with. First, I call the Minister to move the programme motion.
I beg to move,
That—
(1) the Committee shall (in addition to its first meeting at 8.55 am on Tuesday 29 January) meet—
(a) at 2.00 pm on Tuesday 29 January;
(b) at 11.30 am and 2.00 pm on Thursday 31 January;
(c) at 8.55 am and 2.00 pm on Tuesday 5 February;
(d) at 11.30 am and 2.00 pm on Thursday 7 February;
(e) at 8.55 am and 2.00 pm on Tuesday 12 February; and
(f) at 11.30 am and 2.00 pm on Thursday 14 February;
(2) proceedings on consideration of the Bill in Committee shall be taken in the following order: Clause 1; Schedule 1; Clauses 2 to 16; Schedules 2 and 3; Clause 17; new Clauses; new Schedules; remaining proceedings on the Bill;
(3) the proceedings shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion at 5.00 pm on Thursday 14 February.
I welcome you to the Chair, Mr Gray. On behalf of the Committee, I should say that we look forward to serving under your chairmanship—and that of your co-Chair, Mr Crausby.
This is a significant and important Bill, which seeks to address three main areas: oversight, in terms of reform of the Intelligence and Security Committee; proceedings, to ensure that the Government are able to defend themselves effectively in circumstances where matters or evidence involve national security; and measures to deal with what is known as the Norwich Pharmacal jurisdiction and its scope in certain national security cases.
I very much look forward to our debates and discussions in the sittings ahead. Some right hon. and hon. Members are familiar with my Committee style, so I look forward to lively debates on significant issues. We believe that the programme motion provides sufficient time for discussion, and that we can improve the Bill so that it has its rightful effect of providing justice and security.
I, too, welcome you, Mr Gray, and your co-Chair, Mr Crausby.
As the Minister said, the Bill is very important, with implications for liberty, security and justice alongside the role of Parliament. There has already been considerable scrutiny of the Bill in the other place, but I am sure that there will be even more scrutiny in our Committee.
The Committee is very high powered. During his distinguished parliamentary career, my right hon. Friend the Member for Torfaen chaired the ISC and held a number of senior Cabinet and ministerial roles that directly relate to some of the Bill’s provisions. I pay tribute to the hon. Member for New Forest East, who is a serving member of the ISC; his contributions to our deliberations will be very valuable. My hon. Friend the Member for Hackney South and Shoreditch has great experience as a former Home Office Minister, and my hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh East comes to Parliament from a distinguished legal career.
My hon. Friend the Member for Houghton and Sunderland South has considerable knowledge of contemporary defence and home affairs issues, and my hon. Friend the Member for Lewisham East will, of course, make sure that Opposition Members behave ourselves. My hon. Friend the Member for Hammersmith will lead on the justice clauses and, with his background as a distinguished lawyer, brings great experience to the Committee.
I pay tribute to the Minister. I have had the pleasure of sitting on a number of Committees with him. He prepares thoroughly for Committee sittings and listens carefully to comments made by all members. I look forward to our debates.