Clause 13 - Fees to meet Treasury expenditure relating to international organisations

Financial Services (Banking Reform) Bill – in a Public Bill Committee at 2:00 pm on 26 March 2013.

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Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

Photo of Greg Clark Greg Clark The Financial Secretary to the Treasury

I think that most Committee members would agree that the cost of dealing with the failure of banks—indeed, the regulation of financial services—should fall on the sector rather than on ordinary taxpayers. That principle is followed in the FCA and the PRA, which are financed by a levy on the industry, which was established in the Financial Services Act 2012. Other regulators can cover the costs of their international work from the industry, but it is an anomaly that so far the Treasury is not able to meet its costs.

The Clause is restrictive about those costs. Tempting though it is, this is not a mechanism to fill the coffers of the Treasury and finance all sorts of imperialistic tendencies that it might fall prey to. It is limited to the expenses  that come from certain prescribed organisations, which I will mention, that need to be specified to Parliament. The costs are limited to the membership of organisations set out in proposed new section 410A(2) of the 2000 Act. It is proposed that only the global Financial Stability Board should be named from the outset. Any other organisations that would be added in future must have a role in the scrutiny and promotion of financial stability of financial services. Currently, the FSB does not levy a charge on its constituent members—it is funded by the Bank for International Settlements—but in future it may introduce membership fees. The clause is forward-looking and would prevent the Government’s having to return to get primary legislation if, in future, that body started to levy charges.

We have published draft regulations already and will consult the Bank, the PRA and the FCA about who should be subject to fees. For example, there is a question about whether the insurance sector might need to be covered or ought to be exempt. However, the power in the clause is relatively straightforward.

Photo of Chris Leslie Chris Leslie Shadow Minister (Treasury)

The “imperialistic tendencies” of the Treasury imply that there is an emperor somewhere within. I do not know whether there is a Napoleon complex or something else that we should explore there, but I will set that to one side.

It clearly makes a degree of sense for the Treasury to be able to recoup some of the expenses related to the membership of various international organisations. I might have missed it or misheard the Minister, but I do not think that he listed the international organisations in question—it is all very well saying, “For example, the Financial Stability Board or the Basel Committee on Banking Supervision,” but are there others?

Photo of Greg Clark Greg Clark The Financial Secretary to the Treasury

There is only one. Only the Financial Stability Board is specified from the outset, and currently it does not charge fees.

Photo of Chris Leslie Chris Leslie Shadow Minister (Treasury)

That answers my next question, which was about how much the fees are. I want to take the opportunity to ask the Minister about some of the fees that the Treasury has to pay to international organisations. We have recently spotted that the fees for international financial organisations that should have been attributed to the financial year 2012-13 are actually budgeted for the next financial year. For example, under the rather ambiguous title “Exceptional inter-period flexibility”, to which the Chancellor referred in his Budget speech, we saw that the fees for the World Bank and other organisations such as the United Nations and some EU institutions may well have been cast into 2013-14. That raises questions about whether we will have to affiliate twice in that one financial year.

In particular, the UK’s contribution to the European Investment Bank was reclassified. That mysteriously appeared on page 130 of the Office for Budget Responsibility report, yet there was no rationale explaining who made that decision, when or for what purpose. However, it handily reduces the spending totals for 2012-13. I am sure that the Treasury did not resist that too much. We must keep a little watch on what is going on with these fees and subscriptions to international institutions.

If I were one of those institutions, I would be wary of doing a deal with the current occupants of the Treasury, considering their “imperialist tendencies,” because they do that thing where they say, “The cheque is in the post. Don’t worry, we will pay your fee for 2012-13.” Whether they are actually posting the envelope containing the cheque is another matter.

I was told many years ago—obviously I never actually sought to undertake this practice—that if one folds a cheque before paying it, somehow it takes an extra day to clear because a folded cheque does not go through the machines in the clearing system rapidly enough. Has the Chancellor taken to folding his cheques down the middle just to kick the borrowing figures one year further down the road? That is the questions that the Financial Stability Board and the Basel Committee may well need to ask.

I know that there are currently no fees, but this is quite an important issue given what is happening. If there are new organisations that are likely to charge fees, it would be helpful to know what they are and whether there would be proper, normal conventions on how they should be paid or whether we be going into the dimension of inter-period extraordinary flexibility.

Photo of Greg Clark Greg Clark The Financial Secretary to the Treasury

I know that the hon. Gentleman used to represent a Yorkshire Constituency; I do not know whether that is where he learnt this trick of folding cheques to have an extra day’s interest. As a Yorkshireman myself, I am sure that God’s own county would be proud of his little contribution to financial efficiency. I cannot quite work out whether he is concerned that these powers are going to give occasion to let the Treasury rip with the public finances, or thinks that we are too mean in paying our expenses to international bodies.

Remarkably, the Treasury, as befits its reputation, manages to have most of the subscriptions to international bodies paid for by other organisations, whether it is the regulators or other Government Departments, so the occasion to fold up the cheques that are in the post is limited. However, we see coming down the road a particular bill that might be presented from the global Financial Stability Board. With characteristic alacrity, seeing the impending bill that might be presented, the Treasury has anticipated it and taken action so that the cheque can be forwarded straight on to the industry to be picked up. I am not aware of any other financial organisations that need to be designated so that fees are incurred. Certainly there are none that we intend to be covered by the Bill. I have a note about all sorts of organisations that the Bank of England and the FSA pay subscriptions to, but I am delighted to say that the Treasury is not part of it.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 13 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

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clause

A parliamentary bill is divided into sections called clauses.

Printed in the margin next to each clause is a brief explanatory `side-note' giving details of what the effect of the clause will be.

During the committee stage of a bill, MPs examine these clauses in detail and may introduce new clauses of their own or table amendments to the existing clauses.

When a bill becomes an Act of Parliament, clauses become known as sections.

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