Schedule 11

Police Reform and Social Responsibility Bill – in a Public Bill Committee at 5:45 pm on 8 February 2011.

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Question proposed, That the schedule be the Eleventh schedule to the Bill.

Photo of Vernon Coaker Vernon Coaker Shadow Minister (Home Affairs)

I accept what the Minister says, but as this model rolls out, the relationship between the PCC and the PCP in community safety partnerships will be important. If we are not careful, there will be chief constables with an office, police and crime commissioners with an office and staff, police and crime panels and community safety partnerships. Making all that link together will be interesting.

Paragraph 5 amends section 7 of the Crime and Disorder Act 1998. It

“makes provisions for the Secretary of State to require the responsible authorities comprising a Community and Safety Partnership to submit a report on any matter relating to the exercise of their functions. This power is transferred to the relevant policing body…The power must be exercised in a reasonable and proportionate manner”.

Can the Minister explain that? Is it unreasonable for me to ask what is “reasonable and proportionate”, or is it just what it says? Is it just for them to determine at a local level what is reasonable and proportionate and we will see what happens?

Photo of Nick Herbert Nick Herbert Minister of State (Ministry of Justice and Home Office) , The Minister for Policing and Criminal Justice

Yes is the answer. They must behave in a reasonable and proportionate way. As for the hon. Gentleman’s wider point that we have police and crime panels, police and crime commissioners and community and safety partnerships: we already have police authorities and community and safety partnerships. It could be a great deal worse, because under his proposal, we would have police authorities with elected chairs and community and safety partnerships. We therefore have to recognise that local authorities have an important and continuing role, and that the governance of policing is related to that, but separate. That is why it is important to have a police and crime panel as well as community safety partnerships. There are clearly opportunities to ensure that the same individuals are involved. The cost of the police and crime panels should not be the factor that the hon. Gentleman fears. We are making provision for the cost of a scrutiny officer, but I do not see why police and crime panels as a scrutiny body should be costly bodies because their responsibility is not to hold the force to account, but to scrutinise the police and crime commissioner.

Photo of Vernon Coaker Vernon Coaker Shadow Minister (Home Affairs) 6:00, 8 February 2011

That was a reasonable answer, as well as proportionate. The reason why I asked the question is that there is some trouble ahead with the provision, and I just wanted to flag up some of the issues. We will see what happens.

Question put and agreed to.

Schedule 11 agreed to.