Clause 5

Legislation (Territorial Extent) Bill – in a Public Bill Committee at 10:45 am on 27 April 2011.

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Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

Photo of Mark Harper Mark Harper The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office

I wish to make two points. First, my hon. Friend’s intention is that the Bill will come into force automatically three months after Royal Assent. Given that I have set out a number of difficulties with the Bill as drafted, it would require some changes, perhaps significant changes, in the way the legislation is prepared. The Government would have to give proper thought to guidance to ensure that the Bill could be complied with, particularly if we were unable to deal with any lack of clarity about what the Bill meant. The Government  would much prefer the Bill to come into effect through a commencement order, rather than that happening automatically.

Subsection (3), which explains the territorial extent, is incompatible with the usual meaning of those words in legislation. As normally used, they apply to the legal jurisdictions within which the Bill will have effect. England and Wales is a single legal jurisdiction, and there is no separate Welsh legal jurisdiction or set of Welsh legislation, so, as drafted, it is not clear exactly what that means. I urge colleagues not to support clause 5 as drafted.

Photo of Roger Gale Roger Gale Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe (Substitute Member) 11:00, 27 April 2011

I will call the hon. Lady to respond in a moment, but the Minister will appreciate that we must vote on the clause as it stands, not as anybody might wish it to be.

Photo of Harriett Baldwin Harriett Baldwin Conservative, West Worcestershire

The discussion has been helpful and wide-ranging, and it has illustrated that, on both sides of the House, there are strong feelings on this matter. We have heard a clear statement from the Minister that the concern that the Bill is intended to address is something that he agrees needs to be tackled at this time, while it is not a burning issue, and when it is not on the front burner of constitutional challenges for the Government.

I appreciate everything that the Government have stated today about some issues with the legislation. I am disappointed that the Government did not take the  opportunity to table amendments to the Bill, but in speaking to the clause stand part, I look forward to some improvements in the subtlety of the wording when the Bill returns to the Floor of the House.

Question put, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

The Committee divided: Ayes 4, Noes 2.

Division number 6 Decision Time — Clause 5

Aye: 4 MPs

No: 2 MPs

Aye: A-Z by last name

No: A-Z by last name

Question accordingly agreed to.

Clause 5 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Photo of Roger Gale Roger Gale Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe (Substitute Member)

On behalf of the hon. Lady and hon. Members, I take this opportunity to thank the staff of the House for their assistance, without which our business would be a lot harder.

Bill to be reported, without amendment.

Committee rose.