Clause 5

Part of Education Bill – in a Public Bill Committee at 9:30 am on 17 March 2011.

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Photo of Meg Munn Meg Munn Labour, Sheffield, Heeley 9:30, 17 March 2011

It was good to have you in the Chair, Mr Williams, when my hon. Friend was reminiscing about our collective experience on the Adoption and Children Bill.

I spent considerable time working in social services, in particular with children and in the area of child protection. I fully accept that because of that I have a different perspective on the world and about children and families. One of the reasons why it might have been a good idea for me to move on to something else is that when we spend our working life with families with difficulties and meeting people who are setting out to abuse children, we look at things differently.

I was, therefore, surprised when the Minister announced the change during Education questions, some time back in the summer. On that very day, I was fortunate enough to be called in topical questions and was able to raise the issue, and I have been raising the issue ever since. Unfortunately, the Government have not accepted the real concerns here. The Minister sets out—with admirable faith and trust in teachers, head teachers and so on—that we have to trust professionals. What would he say to the parents who I knew, whose children were abused by a head teacher, using the position to do so? The reality is that some people malevolently, and some through lack of care, put children in situations of danger. The amendments seek to row back from children possibly being put, either deliberately or inadvertently, in situations that none of us would want them to be in.

I do not attribute to the Minister, the Secretary of State or the coalition Government a desire to cause problems for vulnerable children. However, as has often been discussed, the matter is one of balance. The issue was last debated more recently than when the regulations were brought in, under clause 79 of the Education and Inspections Bill, which became section 92 of the Education and Inspections Act 2006. The Committee on that Bill had precisely this debate about balance. The Minister, the hon. Member for South Holland and The Deepings, who is not in his place, was present at that debate, and he was remarkably consistent. However, the Committee also heard from Liberal Democrat MPs, including the hon. Member for Mid Dorset and North Poole (Annette Brooke), who has much experience of children’s issues, and she said:

“The serious point is that we can get the balance wrong, and we have done so in certain well publicised circumstances. I make no apology for making what was always going to be a tough argument. Somebody should make that argument, because we do not always get the balance right.”––[Official Report, Education and Inspections Public Bill Committee, 10 May 2006; c. 854-55.]

Her colleague, the hon. Member for Brent Central (Sarah Teather), is now the Minister with responsibility for children. She is the person in the Government who is supposed, above anybody else, to put forward the concerns, issues and well-being of children. On an amendment that was tabled by the coalition—I mean the Conservative party, how easily we make such slips—she said:

“I understand that it would remove the requirement to give 24 hours notice…I may have misunderstood the amendment…For the record, we would not be in favour of removing the period of notice. It would be totally impractical. In rural areas, especially on dark evenings, parents would not know what had happened to their child and would be extremely concerned. It is perfectly acceptable to give 24 hours’ notice, as it will allow parents to make other arrangements for travel or to arrange for a neighbour or other family member to stay at home to provide cover. Anything else would be unacceptable.”––[Official Report, Education and Inspections Public Bill Committee, 10 May 2006; c. 855-56.]

The Education Minister made that comment only five short years ago. I join my hon. Friend the shadow Minister in calling for the Government to tell us what evidence they have received since then to make the Minister with responsibility for children think that something that was unacceptable five years ago is now acceptable.

I apologise for getting worked up about the matter, but I have worked with children and have seen and heard some of the things that happen to them, which should not happen to any children in our society. I accept  the Minister’s argument for schools to be safe, to have discipline, and to have teachers who have authority, but it is also entirely reasonable to have some safeguards.

As my hon. Friend has said, I am not wedded to 24-hour notice. Time has moved on since the measure was first introduced, as have we all. Most of us have mobile devices and better ways of keeping in touch, and many schools have systems. Schools in my constituency subscribe to systems that enable alerts to go out to parents, so that they are informed if, for example, the school is closed because of snow. Systems are in place that were simply not there before, so 24 hours may be neither here nor there.

My hon. Friend and I are wedded to giving parents notice, however, which is entirely reasonable. In what other circumstances would anybody behave in this way? I know that Government Members—including the Chair of the Education Committee, who is not in his place—would say, “Well, teachers and head teachers are all reasonable.” Unfortunately, that is not my experience. If the measure would lead to one, two or 10 children every year finding themselves in situations that any of us would not want our own children, nephews or nieces to be in, we should not be introducing it. We should not be going for the headline, “We are making teachers all-powerful. We have got rid of this issue.” The matter is more important than headlines.

We have spoken at length about young carers, and I have tabled questions and received unsatisfactory responses on that. I know that the Minister recognises the problem. The hon. Member for Wells has also raised the issues. They are better understood than when the Minister first made his statement, but, as my hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff West has said, we know that every young carer is not known to the school, so we cannot make assumptions about any child. Notice therefore seems entirely reasonable, otherwise children will be left in the situation, described by my hon. Friend, of having to make a decision about whether they obey a teacher or whether they do something that causes a problem for the person for whom they are caring, for a young sibling or for themselves. Putting young children in situations in which they have to make those kinds of decisions is not right.

I am also concerned about wider child protection issues. I accept that people who seek to abuse children will use whatever means available, but we should not make it easier for them. For example, somebody might befriend a child in an internet chat room by pretending to be another 13-year-old boy or girl and ask them to meet them after school. The child might reply that they have to get home, but the other person might say, “Tell your parents that you have detention.” A requirement for notice makes it less easy for an abuser to do that.

We all wish that we could live in a world in which we could trust what anybody says, trust teachers to always make the right decisions, and trust head teachers to know everything about their children and to be able to put things right.