Flood and Water Management Bill – in a Public Bill Committee at 6:15 pm on 12 January 2010.
Nia Griffith
Labour, Llanelli
I am keen to speak on the Clause because my Constituency is surrounded on three sides by the sea and has some very significant coastal erosion. It is an extremely important area that we need to consider. What I am going to say has some relevance to clauses 9 and 10, which other hon. Members may wish to pick up later on.
First, I should like to ask about the difference between clauses 7 and 8. In clause 7, there is a monitoring role for the Environment Agency, while that appears to be missing from clause 8. Welsh Ministers do not seem to have a monitoring role for that strategy. How it is envisaged that the strategy will be monitored?
Clause 8(2) contains the detail of exactly what the flood and coastal risk management strategy should consist of and what should be done. Under subsection (2)(e), the strategy must specify how and when the measures are to be implemented.
I should like to place my comments in the context of a plain-speaking report produced by the Welsh Audit Office in October 2009. It found that progress had been slow in respect of the Welsh Assembly Government’s new approaches programme, which brings together stakeholders with interests and responsibilities for the coastline. The report is critical, citing insufficient capacity for the programme, which, it says, was evident from the Welsh Assembly Government’s response to the Pitt review. It cites leadership issues and lack of clarity about the aims of the programme and fragmented and poorly co-ordinated management processing systems. That is extremely worrying, because although those comments are being made about the Welsh Assembly Government, they may apply to some of the lead local flood authorities. Although some of them might perform outstandingly, others might not be so well equipped to perform their tasks.
Our constituents want to see progress on the issue but they are extremely worried about flooding and coastal erosion. How can the provisions of clause 8—and those under clauses 9 and 10, about which Member might want to speak later—be strengthened? I appreciate the difficulties involved in dealing with a range of strategies across the country—for example, it might be difficult to define dates by which something must be done—but the current situation is open-ended, so we need some assurances that things will happen: people are impatient to make progress.
The position with catchment areas has been explained, but the same can be said of the coast: one area can easily impact on another. My hon. Friend the Minister will be aware of the issue of dredging in our part of the world, where activity on one part of the coast can have serious consequences for another part, with different lead flood authorities being involved. Moreover, given that some authorities might be in England and others Wales, with different time lines, different strategies and different implementation times, there seems to be worrying scope for drift.
We want the most effective action to be taken, so will the Minister clarify how that will be achieved without the relevant wording being in the Bill?
Anne McIntosh
Shadow Minister (Environment, Food and Rural Affairs)
I am delighted to follow the hon. Lady.
The hon. Lady identified issues that go to the heart of Clause 8. My concern is that different guidance and strategies could be issued by this place and the Welsh Assembly. What are the implications for cross-border areas, and who will arbitrate disputes that might arise from the differing guidance?
Huw Irranca-Davies
Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs) (Marine and Natural Environment)
My hon. Friend the Member for Llanelli reminds me that she and I discussed flooding issues affecting her constituents when I was a Wales Office Minister.
My hon. Friend asked why the Environment Agency has no monitoring role under the Welsh strategy. That is to do with slight differences due to devolution. The strategy will be developed in Wales by Welsh Ministers, who will also be responsible for monitoring and implementation. However, the Environment Agency will need to report, and under Clause 18(2), that report will include a strategy. It will report both to Welsh Ministers in Wales and the Secretary of State in England, so they will monitor progress effectively.
I hear what my hon. Friend says about the worry about drift and the consultation spreading. I am sure that our colleague, Jane Davidson, will have heard what has been said in Committee today, and will want to guard against that. In fact, I can probably assist a little as well. The Welsh Assembly Government consulted, as we did, on the draft Flood and Water Management Bill. There was strong support in Wales for the production of a national strategy and for the retention of a strong strategic role for Welsh Ministers. That ties in with the way that Welsh devolution has evolved.
In taking forward the comments arising from their consultation, Welsh Ministers felt that the best way to meet the needs of the people of Wales was for them to prepare a national strategy for Wales. A summary of the consultation responses, as considered by the Welsh Assembly Government, is available on the website, and details of the outcome of the consultation in Wales are contained in the joint Government response to the consultation on the draft Bill, which is available on the DEFRA website.
In terms of timing, the Welsh Assembly Government have already begun early planning work for the national strategy, and they intend to publish a draft for consultation this spring. Publication of the final strategy will take place later this year, dependent on a number of factors, including the length of the consultation, the nature of the response, and what, if any, changes are required as a result of that consultation. However, I know that my hon. Friend will make representations, not only about the consultation, but about ensuring that it takes place in a timely manner.
The hon. Member for Vale of York asked, quite rightly, who would be the arbiter of the disputes. That is classic territory for me, as a former Welsh Office Minister and as a DEFRA Minister. How do we deal with such cross-border issues? The crux of the matter—we went through this in the Marine and Coastal Access Bill—is that the two Governments will have to work together. They will have to co-operate fully on the matter and consult. There is no arbiter. There are Welsh Assembly Government Ministers, the Secretary of State and me. The nature of that match is established in the work, relationships and, when necessary, underpinning protocols. However, I do not think that protocols are needed. We have put the strategies and the cross-border arrangements in place and we need to ensure that they work effectively.
I hope that that gives my hon. Friend the Member for Llanelli and the hon. Member for Vale of York the assurance that they need. I think that the clause will be a good one, and the Welsh Assembly Government Ministers will deliver a good strategy to meet the needs of the Welsh people.
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A parliamentary bill is divided into sections called clauses.
Printed in the margin next to each clause is a brief explanatory `side-note' giving details of what the effect of the clause will be.
During the committee stage of a bill, MPs examine these clauses in detail and may introduce new clauses of their own or table amendments to the existing clauses.
When a bill becomes an Act of Parliament, clauses become known as sections.
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