I beg to move amendment No. 23, in clause 20, page 9, line 4, leave out subsection (3).

If there was an Olympic event for probing amendments, this would surely be among the medal winners. The amendment is reasonably narrow. It would remove clause 20(3), but I have comments to make on the rest of the clause, so if we can obviate a clause stand part debate, I will touch on those provisions as well.

Let me make my fundamental point. As part of the deregulation and simplification agenda, there is a move towards what some people call principles-based legislation. That is probably more likely to be appropriate in respect of pensions than many other areas. For the most part, the people involved are grown-ups and the organisations and companies involved are big organisations and sensible, respectable companies. There is an agenda for turning to principles-based legislation, but if clause 20 is an example of what we are to expect, perhaps that is not such a good idea after all.

My particular beef with subsection (3) is that it does not really mean anything. It states:

“In applying this section the pensions...must be considered as a whole.”

I have no idea what that means. Is the alternative to consider them piecemeal? I have no understanding of what it means, but I am sure that the Minister will explain it to us.

I do not understand subsection (3) any more than I understand subsection (4), which makes the point that regulations will be made and refers to determining whether the pensions to be provided under a scheme are

“broadly equivalent to, or better than, the pensions which would be provided...under a test scheme.”

Again, I have no idea what “broadly equivalent” means, and the word “broadly” creeps in at one or two other places in the clause, including subsection (1). Is that really the sort of word that should appear in primary legislation? If this is the new world, I am not sure that I am buying.

We were told that there would be regulations, but I have not seen a glimpse of any draft regulations on this or any other part of the Bill in which they are proposed. Subsection (5) provides for guidance to be issued from time to time by the Secretary of State, but I have not seen any draft guidance. Perhaps the Minister will give us some clues about how people in the real world will be affected by clause 20.