UK Borders Bill – in a Public Bill Committee at 4:30 pm on 20 March 2007.
Damian Green
Shadow Minister (Home Affairs)
I beg to move Amendment No. 108, in Clause 44, page 23, line 19, after, ‘17’ insert ‘and section 27’.
The amendment is designed to make the Bill more effective in one of the areas where I think there is no Division on either side of the House and indeed it may be particularly appropriate that we debate this while in the Chamber we debate the bicentenary of the abolition of the slave trade. This amendment would make it easier and certainly quicker to attempt to stamp out the modern form of slavery which is people trafficking.
The effect of this clause is to add to the commencement section of the Bill section 27, the offences that relate to people trafficking. As currently drafted, only clause 17 of the Bill, support for failed asylum-seekers, comes into force the day the Bill becomes an Act. What we seek to do is to add a reference to section 27 so that we can get a move on with attacking people trafficking.
Everyone on the Committee has participated in debates about the despicable practice of people trafficking. The Government have signalled their intention to tighten up the law, indeed to sign the Council of Europe convention that will enable them to do so, and we welcome that and we support them in that move.
The Minister will recall that when we discussed our amendments to clause 17 we were keen that this House should send a very clear message that we are all serious about toughening up the law and we think that this amendment is a very clear and easy way of doing that. It would ensure that the provisions relating to people trafficking are brought in at the earliest opportunity. We believe this would act as a deterrent and it will also enable the conviction and punishment of as many people traffickers as possible. I am sure the Minister will agree that the sooner we can start on that course of action the better.
The earliest opportunity to start doing that is the day this Bill passes on to the statute book and that is what this amendment would achieve. I hope therefore that it will be regarded sympathetically by the Government.
John Hemming
Liberal Democrat, Birmingham, Yardley
The Amendment seems very sensible and one which I am sure the Government will support.
Liam Byrne
Minister of State (Home Office) (Immigration, Citizenship and Nationality)
I did indeed look upon this Amendment with a great deal of sympathy because I think the Committee has been united in the debates we have had on this subject over the last few weeks. There has been a very clear determination that the law in this area needs to be strengthened. I therefore sought some strong arguments as to why we should not accept this amendment. Only one thing swayed my mind and there is only one reason that I therefore ask the hon. Member for Ashford to consider withdrawing this amendment.
The advice that I have received is that there is a risk—a small risk but a risk none the less—that the courts would potentially not look favourably on our attempts to prosecute under this offence if we did not observe the convention of seeking a brief interlude in which to publicise the fact that this new offence had been introduced.
I am told that it is usual to bring in offences after a period of two months. I do not want to risk—and I am sure nobody on this Committee would wish to risk—any potential prosecution for an offence such as this going wrong because we did not observe this protocol. If the risk is there we should be alive to it. My concern is that when this offence is introduced we are able to maximise the effectiveness of our prosecutions using this offence. If there is a risk that puts that potential in jeopardy, I think I should accept that advice. Therefore I ask the hon. Gentleman to withdraw the amendment because the argument that has been put to me is that there may well be no interlude in which we can publicise—
Liam Byrne
Minister of State (Home Office) (Immigration, Citizenship and Nationality)
I will not give way.
—publicise this offence and therefore if prosecutions may be in jeopardy I think the Amendment should be withdrawn. The brief interlude of two months is not a big time period. If it allows us, however, to increase our chances of successful prosecutions, I think we should take it.
Damian Green
Shadow Minister (Home Affairs)
I find that explanation quite extraordinary. It is not clear why that convention has built up—if it has built up. I confess that in my 10 years in this House I have never heard that explanation for delaying commencement. I fully accept that the Minister will have been given that advice—although I sense that he is taking it with extreme reluctance.
It seems that the courts could put prosecutions in jeopardy because an offence had not been sufficiently publicised. I am not a lawyer, I am glad to say, but one of the clichÃ(c)s to which I cling is that ignorance of the law is no excuse. There will be huge tracts of the statute book about which Committee members know nothing, but none of us would be able to say “Well, the prosecution should not happen because I did not know I was breaking the law.” In this instance, the people who will be terribly inconvenienced by discovering that they were breaking a law that they did not know existed will presumably be people traffickers. Inconveniencing them should be fairly low on any sensible person’s list of priorities.
I find the Minister’s explanation extraordinary. Nevertheless, I have no wish to jeopardise the prosecution of such people, so I accept the Minister’s advice.
Damian Green
Shadow Minister (Home Affairs)
I find it extremely unlikely that prosecutions could be jeopardised, but I have to take what the Minister says in good faith. I have no doubt that the best legal brains in his Department have advised him that it could put prosecutions in jeopardy. I have no wish to do that. With deep and extreme reluctance, I beg to ask leave to withdraw the Amendment.
A parliamentary bill is divided into sections called clauses.
Printed in the margin next to each clause is a brief explanatory `side-note' giving details of what the effect of the clause will be.
During the committee stage of a bill, MPs examine these clauses in detail and may introduce new clauses of their own or table amendments to the existing clauses.
When a bill becomes an Act of Parliament, clauses become known as sections.
An international organisation of member states (45 at the time of writing) in the European region; not to be confused with the Council of the European Union, nor the European Council.
Founded on 5 May, 1949 by the Treaty of London, and currently seated in Strasbourg, membership is open to all European states which accept the princple of the rule of law and guarantee fundamental human rights and freedoms to their citizens. In 1950, this body created the European Convention on Human Rights, which laid out the foundation principles and basis on which the European Court of Human Rights stands.
Today, its primary activities include charters on a range of human rights, legal affairs, social cohesion policies, and focused working groups and charters on violence, democracy, and a range of other areas.
Ministers make up the Government and almost all are members of the House of Lords or the House of Commons. There are three main types of Minister. Departmental Ministers are in charge of Government Departments. The Government is divided into different Departments which have responsibilities for different areas. For example the Treasury is in charge of Government spending. Departmental Ministers in the Cabinet are generally called 'Secretary of State' but some have special titles such as Chancellor of the Exchequer. Ministers of State and Junior Ministers assist the ministers in charge of the department. They normally have responsibility for a particular area within the department and are sometimes given a title that reflects this - for example Minister of Transport.
As a bill passes through Parliament, MPs and peers may suggest amendments - or changes - which they believe will improve the quality of the legislation.
Many hundreds of amendments are proposed by members to major bills as they pass through committee stage, report stage and third reading in both Houses of Parliament.
In the end only a handful of amendments will be incorporated into any bill.
The Speaker - or the chairman in the case of standing committees - has the power to select which amendments should be debated.
A parliamentary bill is divided into sections called clauses.
Printed in the margin next to each clause is a brief explanatory `side-note' giving details of what the effect of the clause will be.
During the committee stage of a bill, MPs examine these clauses in detail and may introduce new clauses of their own or table amendments to the existing clauses.
When a bill becomes an Act of Parliament, clauses become known as sections.
The House of Commons votes by dividing. Those voting Aye (yes) to any proposition walk through the division lobby to the right of the Speaker and those voting no through the lobby to the left. In each of the lobbies there are desks occupied by Clerks who tick Members' names off division lists as they pass through. Then at the exit doors the Members are counted by two Members acting as tellers. The Speaker calls for a vote by announcing "Clear the Lobbies". In the House of Lords "Clear the Bar" is called. Division Bells ring throughout the building and the police direct all Strangers to leave the vicinity of the Members’ Lobby. They also walk through the public rooms of the House shouting "division". MPs have eight minutes to get to the Division Lobby before the doors are closed. Members make their way to the Chamber, where Whips are on hand to remind the uncertain which way, if any, their party is voting. Meanwhile the Clerks who will take the names of those voting have taken their place at the high tables with the alphabetical lists of MPs' names on which ticks are made to record the vote. When the tellers are ready the counting process begins - the recording of names by the Clerk and the counting of heads by the tellers. When both lobbies have been counted and the figures entered on a card this is given to the Speaker who reads the figures and announces "So the Ayes [or Noes] have it". In the House of Lords the process is the same except that the Lobbies are called the Contents Lobby and the Not Contents Lobby. Unlike many other legislatures, the House of Commons and the House of Lords have not adopted a mechanical or electronic means of voting. This was considered in 1998 but rejected. Divisions rarely take less than ten minutes and those where most Members are voting usually take about fifteen. Further information can be obtained from factsheet P9 at the UK Parliament site.
To allow another Member to speak.
As a bill passes through Parliament, MPs and peers may suggest amendments - or changes - which they believe will improve the quality of the legislation.
Many hundreds of amendments are proposed by members to major bills as they pass through committee stage, report stage and third reading in both Houses of Parliament.
In the end only a handful of amendments will be incorporated into any bill.
The Speaker - or the chairman in the case of standing committees - has the power to select which amendments should be debated.
Crispin Blunt
Opposition Whip (Commons)