Serious Crime Bill [Lords] – in a Public Bill Committee at 10:30 am on 3 July 2007.
Douglas Hogg
Conservative, Sleaford and North Hykeham
I beg to move Amendment No. 109, in Clause 15, page 9, line 29, at end insert
‘or non-disclosure is authorised under any other enactment’.
Like my hon. Friend the Member for Hornchurch, may I congratulate the Minister on surviving the reshuffle? It is always a relief. I remember those days when I had to await the summons.
May I also congratulate the hon. Member for Liverpool, Garston on taking up her post and my hon. Friend on leading the Opposition in Committee? I look forward to working both for and with him. Let us hope that he votes for my amendments in the way that his predecessor did not always do.
Amendment No. 109 is fairly uncontroversial. It is made to avoid the problems of unintended consequences. It relates to serious crime prevention orders not requiring people to disclose protected documents. At the moment, that protection is limited to disclosure where disclosure is prohibited under any other enactment. It occurred to me that there might be a range of documents where non-disclosure is authorised by any other enactment. I think that there is a slight difference. In order to guard against the law of unintended consequences, we should build in that protection. If the Minister assures me that there is no difference from the present wording in the Bill, I will be reasonably satisfied. However, I personally think that there is a difference.
James Brokenshire
Shadow Minister (Home Affairs)
I support the Amendment. As always, it is a question of carefully analysing the context and consequences of these provisions. If the Minister can give some assurance or comfort in relation to the detailed and technical point that my right hon. and learned Friend has highlighted, it would benefit the considerations of this Committee and the understanding of the Bill.
Vernon Coaker
Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Home Office) (Crime Reduction)
I hope that my brief comments on Amendment No. 109 will reassure Opposition Members.
Clause 15 provides an important safeguard. We do not intend such orders to cut across any prohibitions on disclosing information that might be contained in other legislation. However, the amendment goes further. It means that in cases in which there is a discretion or restriction on disclosure in another piece of legislation, such disclosure could not be provided for by an order. Discretions or restrictions are specifically drafted as such because disclosure might be appropriate in some instances. I do not think it necessary to extend the provision into such areas; the High Court will be able to decide whether the circumstances of a case make disclosure appropriate.
In addition, clause 37 includes a protection for anyone making such a disclosure. That ensures that actions for breach of a restriction on disclosure cannot be brought against the subject of an order. I hope that, with that reassurance, the right hon. and learned Member for Sleaford and North Hykeham will feel able to withdraw the amendment.
Douglas Hogg
Conservative, Sleaford and North Hykeham
10:45,
3 July 2007
I remain uneasy. I shall not press the Amendment to a Division but it would be helpful to have examples of the instances of discretionary power to withhold that the Minister says exist in legislation. That would put the Committee in a better position to determine whether it wants to insist on the provision, either on Report or in Another place. If the Minister can give us an example now, so much the better, but I shall understand if he cannot; the matter is complicated and I would not blame him for not being able to do so. I would, however, expect to have some examples later. If he would be good enough to write to me, we could reflect on the way forward. On that basis, I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.
A parliamentary bill is divided into sections called clauses.
Printed in the margin next to each clause is a brief explanatory `side-note' giving details of what the effect of the clause will be.
During the committee stage of a bill, MPs examine these clauses in detail and may introduce new clauses of their own or table amendments to the existing clauses.
When a bill becomes an Act of Parliament, clauses become known as sections.
As a bill passes through Parliament, MPs and peers may suggest amendments - or changes - which they believe will improve the quality of the legislation.
Many hundreds of amendments are proposed by members to major bills as they pass through committee stage, report stage and third reading in both Houses of Parliament.
In the end only a handful of amendments will be incorporated into any bill.
The Speaker - or the chairman in the case of standing committees - has the power to select which amendments should be debated.
A parliamentary bill is divided into sections called clauses.
Printed in the margin next to each clause is a brief explanatory `side-note' giving details of what the effect of the clause will be.
During the committee stage of a bill, MPs examine these clauses in detail and may introduce new clauses of their own or table amendments to the existing clauses.
When a bill becomes an Act of Parliament, clauses become known as sections.
Ministers make up the Government and almost all are members of the House of Lords or the House of Commons. There are three main types of Minister. Departmental Ministers are in charge of Government Departments. The Government is divided into different Departments which have responsibilities for different areas. For example the Treasury is in charge of Government spending. Departmental Ministers in the Cabinet are generally called 'Secretary of State' but some have special titles such as Chancellor of the Exchequer. Ministers of State and Junior Ministers assist the ministers in charge of the department. They normally have responsibility for a particular area within the department and are sometimes given a title that reflects this - for example Minister of Transport.
The Opposition are the political parties in the House of Commons other than the largest or Government party. They are called the Opposition because they sit on the benches opposite the Government in the House of Commons Chamber. The largest of the Opposition parties is known as Her Majesty's Opposition. The role of the Official Opposition is to question and scrutinise the work of Government. The Opposition often votes against the Government. In a sense the Official Opposition is the "Government in waiting".
During a debate members of the House of Commons traditionally refer to the House of Lords as 'another place' or 'the other place'.
Peers return the gesture when they speak of the Commons in the same way.
This arcane form of address is something the Labour Government has been reviewing as part of its programme to modernise the Houses of Parliament.
The House of Commons votes by dividing. Those voting Aye (yes) to any proposition walk through the division lobby to the right of the Speaker and those voting no through the lobby to the left. In each of the lobbies there are desks occupied by Clerks who tick Members' names off division lists as they pass through. Then at the exit doors the Members are counted by two Members acting as tellers. The Speaker calls for a vote by announcing "Clear the Lobbies". In the House of Lords "Clear the Bar" is called. Division Bells ring throughout the building and the police direct all Strangers to leave the vicinity of the Members’ Lobby. They also walk through the public rooms of the House shouting "division". MPs have eight minutes to get to the Division Lobby before the doors are closed. Members make their way to the Chamber, where Whips are on hand to remind the uncertain which way, if any, their party is voting. Meanwhile the Clerks who will take the names of those voting have taken their place at the high tables with the alphabetical lists of MPs' names on which ticks are made to record the vote. When the tellers are ready the counting process begins - the recording of names by the Clerk and the counting of heads by the tellers. When both lobbies have been counted and the figures entered on a card this is given to the Speaker who reads the figures and announces "So the Ayes [or Noes] have it". In the House of Lords the process is the same except that the Lobbies are called the Contents Lobby and the Not Contents Lobby. Unlike many other legislatures, the House of Commons and the House of Lords have not adopted a mechanical or electronic means of voting. This was considered in 1998 but rejected. Divisions rarely take less than ten minutes and those where most Members are voting usually take about fifteen. Further information can be obtained from factsheet P9 at the UK Parliament site.
As a bill passes through Parliament, MPs and peers may suggest amendments - or changes - which they believe will improve the quality of the legislation.
Many hundreds of amendments are proposed by members to major bills as they pass through committee stage, report stage and third reading in both Houses of Parliament.
In the end only a handful of amendments will be incorporated into any bill.
The Speaker - or the chairman in the case of standing committees - has the power to select which amendments should be debated.
