Clause 12

Part of Legal Services Bill [Lords] – in a Public Bill Committee at 2:30 pm on 14 June 2007.

Alert me about debates like this

Photo of Simon Hughes Simon Hughes Shadow Attorney General, Party Chair, Liberal Democrats 2:30, 14 June 2007

It does not say what the job is. It states:

“‘Notarial activities’ means”— wait for it—

“activities which, immediately before the appointed day, were customarily carried on by virtue of enrolment as a notary in accordance with section 1 of the Public Notaries Act 1801”.

It says that notarial activities are what notaries do. I am tempted to use a phrase that has come to mind; it is rather mischievous to mention it, but I will do so anyway. My dear friend the Bishop of Southwark was in some difficulty last year and, when asked what he did, he replied from inside his car, “I am the Bishop of Southwark and this is what I do.” It is a rather circumlocutory definition.

Paragraph 7(2) says:

“Sub-paragraph (1) does not include...reserved instrument activities and probate activities...or...administration of oaths.”

We know that those are covered elsewhere,

First, we are entering the territory of, “Let’s say what we are doing here, good people.” Secondly, although the Minister might not yet be ready to deal with the bigger question, if the job is a specific, technical one, then surely it is something that a solicitor could be trained to do. The reality is that we live in a globalised  world—we have had that argument—in which papers from around the world come across jurisdictional frontiers, including from Scotland and Northern Ireland to England and Wales or to Ireland. Bluntly, to have a separate group of people who are qualified to do that particular bit of work seems to me wrong.

Similarly, the Bill does not define administration of oaths by reference to the swearing of documents for a certain purpose. It says:

“The ‘administration of oaths’ means the exercise of the powers conferred on a commissioner of oaths by—” and then refers back to three older pieces of legislation that are each just over a hundred years old.

If we want to retain separate definitions, then please by Report, could we have definitions by reference to what is done, rather than by reference to the creating legislation? Could we also reflect on whether, when the Bill is enacted, we need separate commissioners for oaths, notaries public and solicitors? We should clarify one bit of the wood, so that we can see it for the trees.