What I shall say about the Amendment is in addition to what I said in previous discussions and to what I will say in other discussions that we will have on the matter. I accept what the hon. Lady said about language. It is indeed of critical importance, but the amendment would not produce more appropriate language than is in the Bill, and I shall explain why. In the end, it is down to what we are trying to achieve in practical terms and, importantly, for whom.

Some examples are provided in the explanatory notes, but even those examples represent a huge, diverse community of people who, for different reasons, will require the support of advocacy bodies. In addition, the organisations that provide postal, water, gas and electricity services, whether supply or distribution, will be required to make changes to their complaints processes to ensure that they can deal effectively with the issues raised by vulnerable consumers. They must be accountable.

I hope that what I say will reassure the hon. Lady. I want to give an example of the activities that are now taking place because of campaigning by the NCCand other organisations that represent a range of consumers who have not special needs, but needs that require appropriate responses and resources to ensure that there are effective opportunities to resolve the issues that affect them in the provision of goods or services. I hope that I am able, through my remarks, to build further confidence in what we want to achieve through the NCC and by encouraging and building on cultural and organisational change in the organisations that provide the goods and services.

Any list of specific examples of vulnerability carries a high risk of leaving out a group of consumers who  could be provided with much-needed assistance by the new council. Instead, the Bill leaves it to the new council’s discretion to assist consumers who are in need of assistance. The addition of the words “or otherwise disadvantaged” simply would not add anything worth while to the meaning of the provision.

Clause 12(2) provides that, for the purposes of the clause, a person is vulnerable

“if the Council is satisfied that it is not reasonable to expect that person to pursue the complaint on that person’s own behalf.”

The vulnerability may be of a long-term or a short-term nature. For example, grief can so overwhelm a person when a close relative dies that they are incapable of dealing with aspects of their life, including issues around gas, electricity, water, postage and so on. They need help, too. I doubt that it would be possible to find a legal, technical definition for what we are attempting to do by including someone like that. The debilitating loss of a loved one and the physical and emotional consequences affect hundreds and thousands of people in Britain each month.

There will be people who end up during the course of a complaint with a disability because of a trauma. There must be the ability between the opening up of a complaint and the resolving of it to ensure that an individual whose circumstances change is treated appropriately. That cannot be expressed in legislation in the way that has been suggested.

The language is important. Wide discretion is not discretion to do nothing; it is discretion to try to maximise the pool of opportunity for those who need support and assistance for whatever reason, and it is important that we view it in that way. The Bill does not go any further in defining what “vulnerable” means, because there are many ways in which consumers can be vulnerable. It will provide the necessary flexibility for the council to examine cases with the benefitof increasing understanding of what constitutes vulnerability in any given circumstance.

I wish to give the hon. Lady an assurance. There is a challenge here, is there not? Going back to my earlier remarks, the challenge is to ensure that we have the knowledge base and the skill sets so that at the point of contact, the individual concerned is dealt with with dignity, respect and understanding of the issues in their life that will affect their advocacy opportunities. That is why, for example, the Energy Retail Association has a complaints charter, and we need to examine such good practice and involve it in the new NCC. For example, the ERA has a support strategy to try to ensure that no vulnerable customer is disconnected from their energy supply, in accordance with ERA guidelines. It is now trying to train staff specifically to handle complaints and provide staff specifically trained to deal with vulnerable customers, and senior managers are empowered to resolved disputes on behalf of vulnerable customers.

The matter is not just about the role of the NCC. It goes back to another point that I made earlier to my right hon. Friend the Member for Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill: it is about changing the structure and the way in which companies operate in the relevant sectors, so that they operate effectivelyon behalf of the consumer and recognise their  responsibility. The impact if they fail to do so will be that they end up in a redress situation. I am certain that in those circumstances the redress schemes will be effective. I cannot think of a company that wants to spend its time getting a bad name because of how it deals with consumers and seeing tens or hundreds of thousands of pounds a month leaving its coffers because it acts inappropriately towards disadvantaged consumers. There is a big emphasis on their gettingit right—prevention as part of the cure. It is also important that there is a process for learning from mistakes and sharing best practice.

We must improve the skill mix and capacity for the system to work effectively, and I give the hon. Lady the assurance that part of the process of implementation will be about that, to ensure that the commitments given in the clause can be implemented practically in people’s day-to-day experiences. I believe that that is what the hon. Lady is on about—giving certainty to consumers’ day-to-day experiences when they have an interface with the NCC, the companies concerned and the redress scheme. That is important, and I accept what she says. I hope that, with those assurances, she will be able to accept what I am saying.

Amendment No. 47 would add to the word “vulnerable” the words “or otherwise disadvantaged”. Again, that is not necessary. As I said, any list of examples of vulnerability carries the risk of leaving out a particular individual or group of consumers.

I hope that the hon. Lady accepts that I have genuinely tried to set out the ethos of what we want to do; the challenges that we face in doing it; the training and improvement that we need in the skill mix so that the NCC can act as advocate, and the role that companies need to play by changing. Some have to change dramatically, and I have no doubt that the redress schemes will change the landscape dramatically. It will no longer be a matter of shrugging one’s shoulders and saying, “Well, we’ll get to that complaint. Sorry, it won’t happen again.” There will be an obligation on all in the system to make it operate effectively and to ensure that for anyone who has a disadvantage, for whatever reason, we have the ability, skills and ethos in the organisation to deal effectively with their issues.

I turn to a final point that I believe is important to the hon. Lady and is also important to me as a Minister. It is inevitable when a new organisation is established that there will be a problem with working it in and getting it established, up and working. No organisation has ever been created and from day one operated at 100 per cent. effectiveness. I do not wish to make an excuse in advance, and the implementation strategy is to make the organisation as effective as we can from day one. It is therefore important in the process of implementing the strategy that we havethe capacity to consider thoroughly how to ensure that the commitments given in the clause work effectively. The experience that the clause is intended to create is an effective one on behalf of those with a disadvantage.

Again, I will be happy during the implementation stage after the Bill has become an Act to be as transparent and open as I can. I give another commitment that the new body will consult not only Ministers but those who represent people out in the community who have specific needs. It is important to  build such partnerships. There are skills and knowledge out there that need to be utilised and developed.

In giving that assurance, I return to another point, which will be my final one. We are not only giving it a duty to provide information but a research duty, and part of that research must surely be for the organisation, in representing consumers, to be able to look to whether or where improvements can take place in a quite transparent, honest and effective way. This is one area that, if Members do not mind me saying so, is like building the Forth road bridge. Once we start the process of change then, on a step-by-step and ongoing basis, we will see the ability to right the wrongs that have gone on for many years in the public and private sectors—a failure to provide proper advocacy and other services for disadvantaged individuals and groups. When something goes wrong, it is always those who are disadvantaged that end up the poorer, whether it is a public service, or a service provided by the private sector for the public one, or a private sector provider of goods and services who does not do it appropriately.

This is an important area, which we will build on. There will be an ongoing process of learning and improvement for the organisation and the role that it plays next year, the year after and the one after again, in effecting services on the part of people who are disadvantaged. I hope that my comments will reassure the hon. Lady, at least to the point that we are in the same game and want to achieve the same objectives so that, in a practical way, the experiences that disadvantaged people have had in the past will not be repeated in future.