Throughout the day, we have tried to be as consensual as we can, but I must be clear that I reject the comment of the hon. Member for South-East Cornwall that everything that we have said about independence is annulled by clauses 14 to 16.

The Secretary of State needs to be able to give Natural England directions; that is the case with all NDPBs. That provision is a bottom line to ensure that the Secretary of State is accountable to Parliament for the money that is spent on the policies delivered   through the NDPB. We do not want a situation in which a future Secretary of State says, “I would have stopped the NDPB doing that, but I could not”.

The hon. Gentleman raises an interesting debate, which is both philosophical and practical in the context of what the Committee is considering, about NDPBs and whether a public body can ever be independent, given that it spends taxpayers’ money and therefore needs to be accountable in some way to the taxpayer. It would be tempting to get bogged down in that debate, but there is a clear difference between a service delivered directly by DEFRA and one delivered by an NDPB.

The Rural Development Service is currently a part of core DEFRA, as we seem to describe it within the Department, and it is reshaping itself in anticipation of the formation of Natural England to become part of an NDPB. I suggest to the hon. Gentleman and other Committee members who are interested in the difference that it can make that they spend time talking to those who are responsible for the Countryside Agency, English Nature and, in particular, the RDS. They have seen the change in governance that has come about from having a board and achieving semi-independence from DEFRA, as well as the change in how its advice is seen in consultation with planning authorities. As a statutory consultee, Natural England will need to be seen to be independent from Government and not just repeating the Secretary of State’s advice on a planning application.

The NDPBs will have some negotiation with each other. Regional development agencies are NDPBs, and Natural England will need to negotiate with them on an independent basis. If it is seen as just a part of DEFRA, that will not work. It is clear that we are doing nothing different in the Bill from what has been done in establishing other NDPBs. The Government response to the Select Committee stated:

“Natural England will be an independent...body operating at arm’s length from ministers and making its own day-to-day decisions about how best to achieve its statutory purpose. However as an appointed, not an elected, body, ministers remain responsible to Parliament”.

It necessary to understand that process in considering the clause.

The parliamentary briefing from the confederation of the three predecessor bodies states:

“As Non-Departmental Public Bodies we accept the need to account to Government in fulfilling our statutory duties as set down by Parliament. We therefore accept also the powers for Government to guide and, in the last resort, direct Natural England”.

The consortium added that it welcomed

“the reassurance given in clause 15 and/or 16 by the requirements to consult” and “the transparency of publication”. Indeed, on Second Reading, the hon. Member for Lewes (Norman Baker) was involved in an exchange with the right hon. Member for West Dorset in which he pointed out the merits of our moving things on by making the process more transparent, in that the Secretary of State would have to publish the direction that would be given to Natural England, and Members   of Parliament, the general public, and customers and stakeholders involved with the agency would be able to judge whether the Secretary of State had been reasonable in issuing the direction.

Natural England will be no less independent than any of the predecessor bodies. Powers for Secretaries of State to give directions are normal throughout Whitehall. They are required to ensure proper accountability for a publicly funded body. The Secretary of State can give English Nature and the Countryside Agency directions at present, and the Rural Development Service is, as I have said, part of DEFRA, so we are not changing the status quo. Hon. Members can be assured that the direction provisions in the Bill are in no way an attempt to undermine the independence of Natural England. They are included to ensure proper accountability.