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Is the hon. Gentleman persuadable, given his commitment to civilianisation when that is possible? As I said very clearly, I have serious doubts about it. The form of the proposal is such that we cannot pilot it now because of PACE. If we change the law, the office of custody officer remains; if the pilots are a disaster, no chief constable need have a civilian custody officer in charge. He can fall back on having a custody sergeant. Is it not therefore worth a try?