Serious Organised Crime and Police Bill – in a Public Bill Committee at 3:00 pm on 13th January 2005.
I beg to move amendment No. 180, in schedule 5, page 157, line 19, at end insert—
'(1A) A person to whom a disclosure notice has been given under section 56, whether or not information supplied by that person has been or might be used in legal proceedings.'.
With this it will be convenient to discuss the following: Amendment No. 181, in schedule 5, page 157, line 19, at end insert—
'(1A) A person to whom an immunity notice has been given under section 65, whether or not information supplied by that person has been or might be used in legal proceedings.'.
Amendment No. 182, in schedule 5, page 157, line 19, at end insert—
'(1A) A person to whom a restricted use undertaking has been given under section 66, whether or not information supplied by that person has been or might be used in legal proceedings.'.
Government amendments Nos. 52, 56 and 33.
We come now to the persons specified for the purposes of clause 74, which deals with the protection of people involved in investigations or proceedings. I note the clause is not entirely prescriptive, in that subsection (7) allows any other person to be given protection on other grounds, but if we are to protect people involved in criminal investigations or the legal proceedings that follow on from them, the provisions should be as comprehensive as possible.
The three categories of person who might usefully be added to the list in schedule 5 are dealt with in earlier parts of the Bill. They include those who are given immunity, those on whom a disclosure notice has been served to gain information and those to whom a restricted use undertaking has been given in return for the information that they supplied. It might be argued that they would normally be covered by paragraph (1) of schedule 5, which refers to
''A person who is or might be, or who has been, a witness in legal proceedings''.
However, they might not fall into that category because the information that they provide is of no evidential value and the investigating authorities consider it unhelpful to the case that is being presented. However, if it is known that a disclosure notice has been served on them, or that they have entered into immunity arrangements or a restricted use undertaking, they may be in considerable danger from somebody against whom legal proceedings will be taken or, indeed, somebody who, up until that point, has not been the subject of proceedings but who is still at large and able to cause mischief.
The amendment would give a clear sign to people who may or may not give information that is of evidential value. They should be afforded the greatest possible protection if we are to persuade them to enter into the arrangements that the Bill envisages for them. It would therefore be sensible to list them in the schedule as people to whom statutory protection is available and can be afforded by the investigating authorities.
We share the hon. Gentleman's concerns. He raised the issue on Second Reading and we had a discussion about it earlier today. We are happy to address those concerns to ensure that persons to whom a disclosure notice has been given are covered by the witness protection provisions. However, the phrase
''whether or not information supplied by that person has been or might be used in legal proceedings'' could lead to confusion. It does not fit well with clauses 56, 65 and 66, because it is not a statutory requirement for the issue of notices under those clauses that the person has supplied information.
I hope that the hon. Gentleman will accept the reasons that I have outlined. I agree to his amendment in principle, and if he will withdraw it, I shall table my own amendments on Report to address the concerns that he and others have expressed.
Government amendments Nos. 52 and 56 are an attempt to ensure that we leave out no one we think should be protected.
I thank the Minister for those comments. The only reason I proposed that slightly complicated formulation was to differentiate the people I had in mind from those who will already be covered because they might be or have been a witness in legal proceedings. However, I am sure that the Minister can produce a better formulation, and provided that my concerns are dealt with, I shall be entirely content. I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Amendments made: No. 52, in schedule 5, page 157, line 29, at end insert—
'6A (1) A person who is or has been the Director of Public Prosecutions for England and Wales.
(2) A person who is or has been a member of staff of the Crown Prosecution Service for England and Wales.
6B (1) A person who is or has been the Director or deputy Director of Public Prosecutions for Northern Ireland.
(2) A person who is or has been a person appointed under Article 4(3) of the Prosecution of Offences (Northern Ireland) Order 1972 (1972/538 (N.I.1)) to assist the Director of Public Prosecutions for Northern Ireland.
6C A person who is or has been under the direction and control of the Lord Advocate in the Lord Advocate's capacity as head of the systems of criminal prosecution and investigation of deaths in Scotland.
6D (1) A person who is or has been the Director of Revenue and Customs Prosecutions.
(2) A person who is or has been a member of staff of the Revenue and Customs Prosecutions Office.'.
No. 53, in schedule 5, page 158, line 2, after '(b)', insert 'is or'.
No. 54, in schedule 5, page 158, line 6, after 'who', insert 'is or'.
No. 55, in schedule 5, page 158, line 8, after 'who', insert 'is or'.
No. 56, in schedule 5, page 158, line 19, at end insert—
'15A (1) A person who is or has been the head of the Civil Recovery Unit, that is to say of the organisation known by that name which acts on behalf of the Scottish Ministers in proceedings under Part 5 of the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 (c. 29) (civil recovery of the proceeds etc. of unlawful conduct).
(2) A person who is or has been a member of staff of the Civil Recovery Unit.
15B (1) A person who is or has been a person appointed by virtue of section 246(1) of the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 (c. 29) as an interim receiver.
(2) A person who assists or has assisted an interim receiver so appointed in the exercise of such functions as are mentioned in section 247 of that Act.
15C (1) A person who is or has been a person appointed by virtue of section 256(1) of the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 (c. 29) as an interim administrator.
(2) A person who assists or has assisted an interim administrator so appointed in the exercise of such functions as are mentioned in section 257 of that Act.
15D (1) A person who is or has been the head of the Financial Crime Unit, that is to say of the organisation known by that name which, among other activities, acts on behalf of the Lord Advocate in proceedings under Part 3 of the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 (c. 29) (confiscation: Scotland).
(2) A person who is or has been a member of staff of the Financial Crime Unit.'.—[Caroline Flint.]
Schedule 5, as amended, agreed to.
Clause 75 to 78 ordered to stand part of the Bill.