Clause 231 - Family entertainment centre gaming machine permit

Part of Gambling Bill – in a Public Bill Committee at 4:30 pm on 7 December 2004.

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Photo of Don Foster Don Foster Shadow Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport 4:30, 7 December 2004

May I say how grateful I am to the Minister for advising me that this clause would be a useful opportunity to raise the issue of fish and chip shops yet again? I do it briefly, but it is important to hear some explanation as to why the Government are going to make it impossible for any organisation that does not have either a premises licence or an alcohol licence to have machines. We have debated the issue before and the Minister will respond that this was a recommendation from the scrutiny Committee—and that is true. However, I think that, having examined the evidence from that Committee and having talked to various representatives of the bodies that will be affected, many people have had the opportunity for second thoughts. I have had such an opportunity and I hope that the Minister has, too.

The Minister has acknowledged that the research on category D machines is mixed, and he acknowledged today that there is a need for much more research into the likelihood of their leading to a significant growth in problem gambling. I have mentioned these figures before, but it is important that we are aware that there are currently something like 44,500 machines in 30,000 unlicensed premises. Ultimately, those premises will lose out if the Government have their way. They will prevent the use of the machines in places such as hotels, bowling alleys, cafes, mini-cab offices and fish and chip shops. However, the Government will allow the use of category D machines in a number of other institutions; for example, in motorway service stations.

I would be interested to hear from the Minister why he believes that having a category D machine in a motorway service station is less likely to lead to problem gambling than having one in a fish and chip shop. Surely, he would agree that the level of supervision of the use of the machine in a fish and chip shop would be far higher than that in a motorway service station. I would be grateful if he would tell us about that.